Breaking Fashion Norms: Elizabeth Brunner's Journey to Gender-Free Clothing

Heather: 00:00:06

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So stay tuned and you will see more information soon.

Heather: 00:03:22

So today's guest I am just really really thrilled to introduce you to and to tell you a little about.

Heather: 00:03:31

I just got off of our interview before this and was really looking forward to speaking with her.

Heather: 00:03:39

It had been a long time in scheduling and coming and even though perhaps on paper we may look like we do very, very different things, we actually have so much in common as far as our mission and missions and the way that we see parenting, the way that we see our children.

Heather: 00:04:02

And so I just am really excited for you to listen to this conversation and to be able to learn more yourself.

Heather: 00:04:12

So my guest today is Elizabeth Brunner and she is the founder and CEO of Stereotype and what Stereotype is is a gender free kids fashion brand that aims to break free from traditional gendered clothing by creating what she has coined as blended fashion, a mix of girl and boy aesthetics that are equal in value and defined by no one.

Heather: 00:04:41

Inspired by her girl boy twins to start Stereotype, Elizabeth would observe her twins who at a young age would often naturally be draw to wear pieces from each other's closets to create their own unique blended fashion style that authentically represented who they are and how they want to dress.

Heather: 00:05:05

From watching her twins dress, Elizabeth was inspired by the way they joyfully broke the rules of traditional dressing and soon realized it was time to unlearn the rules of gendered fashion.

Heather: 00:05:19

She did this by supporting and encouraging her twins to discover their individuality by embracing a blended fashion approach where any piece of clothing could be worn by any child regardless of gender.

Heather: 00:05:34

Stereotype is the second disruptive fashion company Elizabeth has started.

Heather: 00:05:39

After studying fashion design at California College of the Arts, she found herself at odds with wasteful fashion industry standards and it inspired her to take action.

Heather: 00:05:50

This led her to launch her first fashion business, Piece by Piece, a pioneering line of one of a kind high end garments that reused discarded sample swatches and leftover fabric from larger fashion houses that would typically be sent to landfills.

Heather: 00:06:07

I'm really, really excited to bring Elizabeth onto the show.

Heather: 00:06:11

So with further ado, here is Elizabeth Brunner.

Host: 00:06:27

Welcome to Just Breathe Parenting, your LGBTQ team, the podcast transforming the conversation around loving and raising an LGBTQ child.

Host: 00:06:40

My name is Heather Hester and I am so grateful you are here.

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Host: 00:06:54

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Host: 00:07:11

Most of all, I want you to remember that wherever you are on this journey right now, in this moment in time, you are not alone.

Elizabeth: 00:07:29

Elizabeth, welcome to the show.

Elizabeth: 00:07:31

I am so happy that you are here today and that you've made time out of your very busy creative schedule.

Elizabeth: 00:07:40

You are going to bring a ton of value to everyone listening.

Elizabeth: 00:07:43

So thank you so much for being here.

Guest: 00:07:45

Well, thank you for having me, Heather.

Guest: 00:07:47

I'm excited to talk with you.

Heather: 00:07:49

Likewise.

Elizabeth: 00:07:50

So I would love to just start kind of right at the very beginning of how you came into doing what you are doing now, how you came up with the idea.

Elizabeth: 00:08:04

I know a little bit of your design background, so it certainly was a.

Elizabeth: 00:08:09

A piece of it.

Elizabeth: 00:08:10

But really, could you tell everyone what inspired you to create stereotypes?

Guest: 00:08:17

So stereotype is actually inspired by my girl, boy twins.

Guest: 00:08:22

And they inspired the idea when they started dressing themselves at a young age.

Guest: 00:08:27

They were around age 4 when they started digging into their own clothes and putting their own outfits together.

Guest: 00:08:33

And my daughter naturally wanted to wear my son's clothing and my son naturally wanted to wear my daughter's clothing.

Guest: 00:08:40

And it, it was a really interesting observation to make.

Guest: 00:08:44

They're twins, so obviously they have the same size and, you know, the same clothing pretty much in general in terms of play, but they were gravitating towards opposite gender clothing, which really planted the seed in me for, you know, creating a clothing line at the very beginning.

Guest: 00:09:02

It didn't, but it did plant a seed for the idea of, like, maybe there could be something here.

Guest: 00:09:07

And then as time went on and I got more interested in possibly starting a new company is really when I started digging into clothing and how it could really affect their lives growing up in terms of being positive with whatever they decided to wear, regardless of gender.

Guest: 00:09:26

So it was really a lot of self reflection and work on moving beyond gender norms to suit my children's own desires and needs without any judgment.

Elizabeth: 00:09:38

That is really, really cool.

Elizabeth: 00:09:39

And I think that that is something that's first of all very, very needed right now.

Heather: 00:09:44

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:09:45

And second, something that I think a lot of people are.

Elizabeth: 00:09:51

It brings up a lot of different emotions for people ranging from, you know, very fearful to super excited.

Heather: 00:09:59

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:10:00

And we were talking a little bit before we started recording about the idea of gendered clothing, non gendered clothing, and the wording, like how we talk about this and why that is so important.

Elizabeth: 00:10:18

So I wonder if you could just shed a little light on that and some of your thoughts on that.

Guest: 00:10:22

Well, language is very important, for sure.

Guest: 00:10:25

Words matter.

Guest: 00:10:26

So for me Being very specific about how I was describing the clothing line, it's not gender neutral, it's gender free, which basically means I'm not necessarily removing gender from it, but I'm not putting it in a category that genderizes my items.

Guest: 00:10:43

So everything is made for boys and girls, and there's an element of feminine and masculine in my clothing designs.

Guest: 00:10:51

And so I coined the term blended fashion because that's more appropriate for what I have created.

Guest: 00:10:57

So I'm not necessarily removing gender.

Guest: 00:10:59

I do call it gender free, but specifically because it doesn't belong in a category.

Guest: 00:11:03

It's a category all on its own.

Guest: 00:11:06

And I think that's really important too, because it's not my job to define my children, it's my job to support them.

Guest: 00:11:12

And if my son wants to wear something more feminine, I'm going to allow that.

Guest: 00:11:16

And he is free to do so.

Guest: 00:11:18

The same for my daughter, she wants to wear head to toe black camo dinosaur.

Guest: 00:11:22

She's allowed to do that.

Guest: 00:11:24

And I support my children in doing that.

Guest: 00:11:26

And this, this clothing line is really a reflection of supporting my kids, therefore all kids.

Guest: 00:11:30

But it extends to adults as well.

Guest: 00:11:33

And really, you know, learning about yourself and being an individual and growing and expanding and making space for different ideas about who you are.

Elizabeth: 00:11:44

Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:11:45

And I do like that because I think that is something that, you know, kids tend to really play with and we don't really think about it necessarily, perhaps when they are young, but as they reach kind of the adolescent teenager, Young adult age is when you tend to be more aware of it.

Elizabeth: 00:12:07

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:12:08

And at least you know, kind of in my experience of observing with my children and their friends and just society as a whole.

Elizabeth: 00:12:17

And I, I think that by creating this blended fashion, instead of stating it's gender free or not gender free, but general, neutral or non gendered does give space.

Elizabeth: 00:12:33

It gives space to everyone involved, whether it's the child, the parent, the teenager, to really say, oh my gosh, like, I can do that, I'm allowed to do that.

Elizabeth: 00:12:47

Which I think is a really, really cool thing.

Guest: 00:12:50

So let me give you some context too, because actually the reason that I really specifically designed it gender free is because I was noticing my daughter was getting very different reactions to dressing more, quote, unquote, tomboyish than my son dressing in more feminine styles.

Guest: 00:13:06

So the reaction for my daughter was she got none.

Guest: 00:13:09

She had no pushback.

Guest: 00:13:11

Nobody said a word about anything.

Guest: 00:13:12

She wore, she wears like a sports jersey, a baseball cap backwards to school.

Guest: 00:13:17

No one ever said anything.

Guest: 00:13:19

But when my son decided he wanted to wear a skirt or something more feminine, he would get side looks, whispers and points.

Guest: 00:13:27

And that was from adults as well as friends.

Guest: 00:13:30

So the outside of our home reaction to our kids dressing beyond their gender was not received equally.

Guest: 00:13:39

And that really sparked the idea for stereotype as well, is that this is unacceptable to me as a parent that my son is being treated differently just because he's wearing something that's, you know, quote unquote, more feminine.

Guest: 00:13:51

And my daughter is not receiving any sort of negative feedback for dressing more masculine.

Guest: 00:13:58

So for me, it was really having that observation on the outside world with the outside world and realizing that this is not an acceptable way to be and my child should not be treated differently just because of what they wear and choose to wear.

Guest: 00:14:14

And he's a child.

Guest: 00:14:16

I mean, this was when my children are homeschooled now, but this is when they were six, so very young.

Heather: 00:14:22

Right.

Guest: 00:14:22

And it's when their imaginations are really, you know, at their peak and are just, you know, him dressing in a skirt or a dress is pure joy and radiance for him.

Guest: 00:14:33

Same with my daughter.

Guest: 00:14:33

She loves to wear head to toe black.

Guest: 00:14:35

She feels strong.

Guest: 00:14:36

She was wearing a black panther mask all the time.

Guest: 00:14:39

And I remember just, just her feeling, her power.

Guest: 00:14:43

And so for me, it was observing like, well, what is the behavior I'm seeing with these, with these options that they're choosing for themselves and am I going to support that?

Guest: 00:14:50

And the answer for me was yes, I am.

Elizabeth: 00:14:54

Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:14:55

Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:14:56

And I applaud you for that because I'm sure there were days that, that was very, very difficult and very heartbreaking for you to make those observations and to see the societal reaction.

Elizabeth: 00:15:12

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:15:12

Which is sadly not surprising.

Elizabeth: 00:15:15

But going about this in the way you did, I mean, first of all, naming it stereotype is fantastic because it's a lovely little zinger there.

Guest: 00:15:29

Yes, it's.

Guest: 00:15:30

It's pushing beyond stereotypes.

Guest: 00:15:31

Yeah, for sure.

Elizabeth: 00:15:32

Yes.

Elizabeth: 00:15:33

I mean, it really is.

Heather: 00:15:34

And I love that.

Elizabeth: 00:15:35

Which is then.

Elizabeth: 00:15:36

And I think every time that there's someone like you that, that does something like this, that creates something that like this and is willing to have conversations about seeing our kids fully for who they are and making these observations of what really lights them up.

Heather: 00:15:58

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:15:58

Whether it is the way they're dressing or the toys they're playing with or the people that they're friends with and you know, as they get older, who they love and, you know, and just how they feel comfortable going through life and kind of taking away that.

Elizabeth: 00:16:19

The expectation that perhaps that we had Grown up with.

Heather: 00:16:22

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:16:22

There's a lot of expectation, a lot of things that we've kind of been pre programmed with, so to speak, and allowing that to drop away, which sounds like came through, you know, a lot of self reflection for you.

Elizabeth: 00:16:35

I know it did for me as well.

Elizabeth: 00:16:37

And dropping that and just being like, wow, like look at this kid just glow.

Elizabeth: 00:16:43

Look at this kid just thrive when I remove all those layers.

Guest: 00:16:48

Right, right, yeah.

Guest: 00:16:51

The need to label is very instinctual for a lot of people because we are so deeply conditioned and we're conditioned in our home from childhood, you from, from infancy really.

Guest: 00:17:01

And then, you know, we go out into the world.

Guest: 00:17:03

We're conditioned by the outside world, we're conditioned by, you know, our religion.

Guest: 00:17:09

You know, there's culture, there's many ways that we're conditioned.

Guest: 00:17:12

I think for me it was really removing what was what is no longer working for me.

Guest: 00:17:18

And that's very personal.

Elizabeth: 00:17:19

Right.

Guest: 00:17:20

That does take a lot of deep self reflection and you have to be able to do that.

Guest: 00:17:25

And for me it was like this is about my kids and my kids who I.

Guest: 00:17:29

Whom I love unconditionally.

Guest: 00:17:31

And if that's really true, then there's no condition on anything that they can do.

Guest: 00:17:37

They're always going to be loved and I need to be true to that.

Guest: 00:17:39

And that meant I had no judgment on.

Guest: 00:17:42

My kids weren't wanting to wear anything beyond their gender.

Guest: 00:17:46

The judgment came from the outside world.

Guest: 00:17:48

But I had to be prepared to face that and stand with my kids if there was any pushback.

Guest: 00:17:53

And there was a couple of times and I had no problem standing up and stating the fact is my son can wear whatever he wants.

Guest: 00:18:02

And I think that that does come.

Guest: 00:18:04

That courage takes time and you have to be willing to do some self reflection and make space for.

Guest: 00:18:09

Is this really mine?

Guest: 00:18:11

Is this really what I believe now?

Guest: 00:18:14

Because it was planted so long ago, is it true for me now?

Guest: 00:18:17

And sometimes the answer may be yes, but sometimes the answer may be no as well.

Guest: 00:18:21

And I think just making space to ask that question will give you a lot of expansion as an individual.

Guest: 00:18:28

And that is something that's needed for your kids.

Elizabeth: 00:18:32

It really is.

Elizabeth: 00:18:33

And I think that our kids, one of the many, many beautiful gifts of having children is many times they force us to look at things in a very different light.

Elizabeth: 00:18:44

And we come to a place where there are, there are two very clear options, right.

Elizabeth: 00:18:49

We can really understand and step into unconditional love or we can stay, you know, hidden by all the stuff.

Elizabeth: 00:19:01

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:19:01

That that's just was there before.

Elizabeth: 00:19:05

And, and doing that work is hard.

Elizabeth: 00:19:08

It's.

Elizabeth: 00:19:09

It can be very hard.

Elizabeth: 00:19:11

It can be very uncomfortable, but it's so very worth it.

Elizabeth: 00:19:16

And not only for personal, but for the relationship that then you're creating with your child.

Elizabeth: 00:19:25

And I just, I, you know, I am, I am thrilled for you because this is something that you realized at such a young age for your children.

Elizabeth: 00:20:32

Mine were so much older when I had these epiphany moments where I was like, oh my gosh.

Heather: 00:20:40

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:20:40

Like, of course.

Elizabeth: 00:20:41

And, and not that I didn't, you know, love my kids and wouldn't have laid down in front of a train for them before, but it was just a different kind of seeing them.

Elizabeth: 00:20:50

I didn't see them then the way I see them now.

Elizabeth: 00:20:54

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:20:55

And so being able to do that, not being afraid to do that and you know, and kind of to your point, knowing that when you do face whatever comes at you from society, that.

Guest: 00:21:12

You'Re okay with that you're clear in who you are.

Guest: 00:21:14

Well, it, it's interesting too because it's, it's really about.

Guest: 00:21:17

You said, oh, I had these epiphanies later.

Guest: 00:21:20

Well, you don't know what you don't know.

Guest: 00:21:22

And so when you have those epiphanies, I mean, they're amazing moments of self learning.

Guest: 00:21:29

Right.

Guest: 00:21:29

And this was really, for me, it was like, oh, I need to unlearn some things that no longer work for me and I'm going to recalibrate to learning something new.

Guest: 00:21:37

And I think that's really important as well.

Guest: 00:21:38

Just as a self development for anyone.

Guest: 00:21:41

Right.

Guest: 00:21:41

You don't have to be a parent.

Guest: 00:21:42

Like, this is just self development in general.

Guest: 00:21:45

And so making space for.

Guest: 00:21:47

Okay, this was planted.

Guest: 00:21:48

Maybe I don't agree with it anymore.

Guest: 00:21:49

Let me think about it.

Guest: 00:21:51

Why don't I agree with it?

Guest: 00:21:53

What is bothering me about it?

Guest: 00:21:54

And it does take quite a bit of self reflection and there can be a lot of fear there.

Guest: 00:21:59

I mean, there it was fear for me.

Guest: 00:22:00

I didn't want my son to get bullied.

Guest: 00:22:02

I mean, that was my fear.

Guest: 00:22:03

That was what I was up against.

Guest: 00:22:05

Okay, how am I going to give him the tools to understand he is not doing anything wrong?

Guest: 00:22:11

Well, those tools are going to come from me because I'm going to make sure he knows that.

Guest: 00:22:14

So it was really creating a safe space and language around what he was experiencing and making sure he knew he was not wrong.

Guest: 00:22:23

My daughter, again, she never had any issues.

Guest: 00:22:25

We've never had to have that conversation, but she could see the contrast Even at a young age that she was getting over my son.

Guest: 00:22:33

And, you know, again, that sparked.

Guest: 00:22:36

Sparked me to, you know, really continue on the path of building this company and this brand and spreading this message, which it's really all about.

Elizabeth: 00:22:45

Yes, I just.

Heather: 00:22:47

I think it is really, really.

Elizabeth: 00:22:49

It's really, really lovely that you have done this, because it is kind of a dual message, right?

Elizabeth: 00:22:54

You get to put something physical out into the world that has such an important personal message, such an important societal message.

Elizabeth: 00:23:03

And so what an awesome gift that you've given everyone.

Elizabeth: 00:23:10

I'm wondering, just out of curiosity, once you launched this brand, once you, you know, started getting kind of getting this, working it through your mind and really getting clarity on how you wanted to present it to the world, did you have any pushback?

Elizabeth: 00:23:26

And how was it difficult for you to propose this to the people that you began to bring this idea to?

Guest: 00:23:36

So I would say I didn't have any initial pushback.

Guest: 00:23:39

I mean, I shared the idea with my inner circle, and my inner circle gave me a lot of positive feedback.

Guest: 00:23:46

And even if it wasn't my inner circle or it was somebody that I was like, yeah, I'm working on this business and love to hear what you think.

Guest: 00:23:52

The amount of times that I heard from adults, whether they had children or not, that the idea gave them goosebumps and it was exciting, or that they wished that the clothing line was around for them when they were kids because they either didn't get to express themselves the way they were wanted to, and they felt that that was something that was really lacking in their life.

Guest: 00:24:15

I had one person tell me, you know, as a male, I wanted to wear pink as a child, and my mom wouldn't let me.

Guest: 00:24:20

And I finally bought my first pair of pink shoes, and I love wearing them.

Guest: 00:24:24

So, you know, we hold on to these ideas for decades, right?

Guest: 00:24:28

And we're just.

Guest: 00:24:30

We're making ourselves smaller to fit into a box that really doesn't exist.

Guest: 00:24:34

And so for me, it was really removing these layers.

Guest: 00:24:37

These are invisible barriers that we create around ourselves because we're told by the outside world how to be.

Guest: 00:24:44

And so that was great.

Guest: 00:24:46

And so the pushback I have received has been more through social media.

Guest: 00:24:52

And when I read the feedback that is negative, I just hear a lot of fear in there.

Guest: 00:24:57

And I get it, because people are comfortable knowing that things are supposed to be a specific way.

Guest: 00:25:04

But the thing is that they're not.

Guest: 00:25:05

These rules are arbitrary and they're made up.

Guest: 00:25:08

And I used to get really activated and get very upset but now I'm just like, it's just somebody that's scared and doesn't really understand.

Elizabeth: 00:25:16

Right.

Guest: 00:25:17

And it's not for them, and it's fine.

Guest: 00:25:19

It doesn't need to be.

Guest: 00:25:20

So there's had to be a lot of work for me as well, to not take things personally.

Guest: 00:25:24

Right.

Guest: 00:25:25

Because I am, I mean, essentially call stereotype my third child, because it is like raising another child, you know, on, like, it's startup and I'm, you know, getting it going and helping it grow.

Guest: 00:25:36

And so it's really hard to take that feedback about your child.

Guest: 00:25:40

And then I realized, oh, this isn't really about the child.

Guest: 00:25:43

This is about the person making the call me.

Guest: 00:25:46

So, you know, again, a lot of layers to, like, how to filter it out.

Guest: 00:25:51

But I've learned over the past two years how to.

Guest: 00:25:54

How to handle that more effectively so that it doesn't change my mission.

Guest: 00:25:59

And my goal to get the idea of this is all about individuality.

Guest: 00:26:03

The clothing line is all about supporting a child's individuality as well as an adult's.

Guest: 00:26:08

And that means making space for growth.

Elizabeth: 00:26:12

That is fantastic.

Elizabeth: 00:26:13

Oh, my goodness.

Elizabeth: 00:26:14

I have.

Elizabeth: 00:26:14

I have goosebumps.

Elizabeth: 00:26:18

I'm just so thrilled.

Elizabeth: 00:26:20

And I'm really impressed because that does.

Heather: 00:26:23

That is very difficult.

Elizabeth: 00:26:25

And I completely understand that.

Elizabeth: 00:26:27

And I almost could, like, feel the feeling when you were saying that, because I know when I get comments, like, at first, like, it, you know, it hits me, like, right in my gut, and I.

Elizabeth: 00:26:38

You just feel it everywhere.

Elizabeth: 00:26:39

And then you're like, oh, wait a second, like.

Elizabeth: 00:26:43

And then I just feel sad or, you know, I feel for the person.

Heather: 00:26:47

Because you're exactly right.

Elizabeth: 00:26:49

It is fear, and it is.

Elizabeth: 00:26:52

We've been so conditioned to want everything to go in a neat box.

Elizabeth: 00:26:57

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:26:58

Check the box, fit into the box, fit in here.

Elizabeth: 00:27:00

Because that just, like, is comfortable, but it's also something that's only been created within the past, you know, 100, 150 years.

Elizabeth: 00:27:11

I mean, when you look historically all the way back, it wasn't like this.

Elizabeth: 00:27:17

So there's.

Elizabeth: 00:27:19

I always find that quite interesting to read about, to look at and to discuss, because what you're doing is bringing back, really bringing back something that existed hundreds of years ago and the way it should be.

Elizabeth: 00:27:36

And the discussion of a spectrum, not two boxes, so.

Guest: 00:27:42

Right, right.

Guest: 00:27:43

And acceptance.

Guest: 00:27:45

And, you know, it's funny, I was just thinking, I don't know why I had this, like, vision, but one of the comments that I get or have received was basically a lot of pushback because I created A skirt that is gender free, that has shorts underneath, creates privacy.

Guest: 00:28:00

There are athletic shorts and the overlay is a denim kind of kilt skirt.

Guest: 00:28:06

And it's.

Guest: 00:28:06

It's really great for play and is really well made.

Guest: 00:28:09

But one of the comments that was received on it was skirts are only for girls.

Guest: 00:28:13

You know, I hear this a lot.

Guest: 00:28:15

Skirts are just for girls.

Guest: 00:28:16

Just for girls.

Guest: 00:28:16

And my pushback is always like, skirts are for all.

Guest: 00:28:18

They're for girls.

Guest: 00:28:19

Yes, you're right.

Guest: 00:28:20

They're also for boys and they're also for anyone who likes to wear them.

Guest: 00:28:22

So that's usually my return comment is something along those lines.

Guest: 00:28:25

But what I.

Guest: 00:28:27

What's been really satisfying for me is other people will defend the brand for me.

Guest: 00:28:31

I won't even have to say anything.

Guest: 00:28:33

Somebody else will jump in.

Guest: 00:28:34

So one of the comments I received as a pushback to a comment somebody made about skirts are just for girls.

Guest: 00:28:40

And I don't remember the rest, but it's probably a little more degrading than that.

Guest: 00:28:44

But the comment was, well, Jesus wore a dress.

Guest: 00:28:48

And so, you know, was such a great comment.

Guest: 00:28:50

And no, they didn't reply to that.

Guest: 00:28:52

It was.

Guest: 00:28:53

It's pretty factual or true.

Guest: 00:28:54

Right?

Elizabeth: 00:28:56

Shut that down.

Elizabeth: 00:28:57

Right?

Elizabeth: 00:28:57

Yeah.

Guest: 00:28:58

So it's interesting to see that other people will actually step in and defend the brand and the message.

Guest: 00:29:06

Really, it's like, skirts are for everyone.

Guest: 00:29:07

You don't have to buy my clothing to go buy.

Guest: 00:29:10

Wear a skirt.

Guest: 00:29:10

If you're a boy.

Guest: 00:29:11

Right.

Guest: 00:29:11

You can go to Target, go anywhere and get a skirt.

Guest: 00:29:14

But it was very specific to the skirt I had designed.

Guest: 00:29:17

And I just thought that was really great to see that I can defend it, but I also don't need to.

Guest: 00:29:23

I'm very aligned with what I'm doing and my mission and my vision.

Guest: 00:29:26

It's a calling.

Guest: 00:29:27

It's something I know I have to do.

Guest: 00:29:29

And so it doesn't faze me anymore and in fact, gives me fuel to keep going.

Elizabeth: 00:29:34

Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:29:35

Oh, my goodness.

Elizabeth: 00:29:36

Well, every single time that happens.

Elizabeth: 00:29:38

Right?

Elizabeth: 00:29:39

You just think, that's why I'm doing this.

Guest: 00:29:41

Yeah, exactly.

Elizabeth: 00:29:42

That's why I'm doing this.

Elizabeth: 00:29:44

So I'm looking behind your.

Elizabeth: 00:29:45

Over your shoulder and I see the T shirt that says me is all I want to be.

Elizabeth: 00:29:49

And I love that.

Elizabeth: 00:29:50

That's awesome.

Guest: 00:29:52

What's the tagline?

Guest: 00:29:53

Stereotype?

Elizabeth: 00:29:55

Just amazing.

Guest: 00:29:58

And it applies to all.

Guest: 00:29:59

And I think that's one of the things I'm most proud of about the brand as well is that, yes, this was inspired by my own children and their.

Guest: 00:30:07

What they were presenting to me, but actually then it went to all children.

Guest: 00:30:11

And I'm like, wait, actually, this is about adults as well, because we are not done growing when we become adults.

Guest: 00:30:18

We're not done growing as parents, as you know.

Guest: 00:30:20

And our children are our greatest teachers.

Guest: 00:30:22

They're the ones.

Guest: 00:30:23

My child, my children, they don't have any preconceived notions of what was right or wrong.

Guest: 00:30:28

Right.

Guest: 00:30:29

When they first started dressing, they were just dressing based off of what they were attracted to.

Heather: 00:30:33

Right.

Guest: 00:30:33

And that's not right for me to step in and say, oh, no, no, no, you here, Chloe, put this dress on.

Guest: 00:30:38

Jacob, you go put this, these camel print pants on or whatever.

Guest: 00:30:42

It's.

Guest: 00:30:43

It was more about, oh, these are things that they're attracted to because they're kids and they're pure of heart and they know instinctively what they love.

Guest: 00:30:50

And it's not for me to go in and try and change that.

Guest: 00:30:54

And that's hard for a lot of parents to do because it is a trigger reaction or because we go into.

Guest: 00:30:59

Well, I just want to keep them safe and I don't want them to have any adverse reaction in the outside world.

Guest: 00:31:05

And what I say to parents that do that, like, well, what do you, what do you do about bullying?

Guest: 00:31:09

How do you tell parents to handle that?

Guest: 00:31:10

I usually say is to make sure your home is a safe space that they can express themselves no matter what, in front of you and can feel safe in doing so and not feel judged or labeled.

Guest: 00:31:22

And it continues to the outside world.

Guest: 00:31:24

But it takes more bravery as a parent to.

Guest: 00:31:27

To stand with your child.

Guest: 00:31:29

I also say, stand with your child.

Guest: 00:31:31

If somebody is asking or making a comment, stand with your child.

Guest: 00:31:34

Always tell them that they are not wrong.

Elizabeth: 00:31:37

Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:31:38

And let them hear you say that.

Guest: 00:31:41

Yes, let them hear you say.

Guest: 00:31:44

And I think that's really important as well, because if your child knows that you support them no matter what, that's the safety and the anchor that they need to go out into the world and face any adversity or contrast.

Guest: 00:31:54

It doesn't have to be specific to clothing.

Guest: 00:31:57

Right.

Guest: 00:31:57

It's anything, anything.

Guest: 00:31:59

You have their back.

Elizabeth: 00:32:00

Yep.

Elizabeth: 00:32:01

100%.

Elizabeth: 00:32:02

100%.

Elizabeth: 00:32:03

And when they know that the home is their safety nest.

Elizabeth: 00:32:08

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:32:08

Their safety tree, where they can just be, holy cow.

Elizabeth: 00:32:12

Like, that is just.

Elizabeth: 00:32:14

It makes such a big difference because we can't control what's happening out there.

Elizabeth: 00:32:20

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:32:20

But we can control to a greater extent what happens in our home and the environment we create and the energy that we allow or create or whatever you want to say in our home.

Elizabeth: 00:32:34

So I do appreciate that so much and your ability to see them from such a young age.

Elizabeth: 00:32:42

I'm just thinking, you know, about your kids specifically but you know, any child to be seen like that and especially.

Heather: 00:32:51

From the get go.

Elizabeth: 00:32:53

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:32:53

Is just a really cool thing because that's something that they're not going to have to unlearn.

Elizabeth: 00:33:00

That's just how they've walked through life.

Elizabeth: 00:33:03

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:33:04

So you've given them such a gift of being able to be 100% authentic from day one and to go out into the world as this like truly authentic being and that's just who they're going to attract and the energy they're going to put out there.

Elizabeth: 00:33:21

And I think that is just extraordinary.

Elizabeth: 00:33:24

So bravo.

Guest: 00:33:26

Thank you.

Guest: 00:33:29

I certainly wasn't intentional in that, in that way of thinking.

Guest: 00:33:32

It was again my own self reflection that brought me to that mind space and you know, really truly wanting to, you know, be the best parent I could be.

Guest: 00:33:42

Not the perfect parent, but the best parent I can be.

Guest: 00:33:44

And you know, for me, I often say that raising my children is re raising myself and looking at the ways I was not supported or seen or valued.

Guest: 00:33:55

And you know, that takes time and perspective as well.

Guest: 00:33:57

And so for me, it's also kind of on my own healing journey of what are the ways that I wasn't seen and heard and how can I make sure I'm hearing and seeing my children for who they are, who they are showing me the whole child before me, not just parts of it and the things that I'm comfortable with, even the things I'm not comfortable with and how do I get work through that.

Guest: 00:34:17

And it's not always easy, it's, it's not linear.

Guest: 00:34:21

But it is something I know that I can work on and can face and it's not something I'm afraid of.

Guest: 00:34:28

And I think once you can remove that fear, like oh no, this is my child.

Guest: 00:34:32

I want to see them holy, full as whoever they need to be in front of me.

Guest: 00:34:39

The deeper your connection is to your child and that also I have seen like over time, like they're deeply connected to me and I want that.

Guest: 00:34:48

I don't ever want to lose that.

Guest: 00:34:49

You know, I want them to feel like that they can come to me if they need to for anything.

Guest: 00:34:54

Not.

Guest: 00:34:54

I don't want them to be scared or worried I'm going to have a reaction that they don't like or that I don't like.

Guest: 00:35:01

And you know, that takes a lot of work because we're not conditioned to do that from a young age.

Guest: 00:35:06

We're conditioned to know things have to fall in line in a certain way and that's just not how life is.

Guest: 00:35:12

And it shouldn't be that way.

Elizabeth: 00:35:14

No, no.

Elizabeth: 00:35:16

There's a lot of shoulds that we have to get rid of.

Elizabeth: 00:35:19

We have to let go of to be able to be in that place of awareness and really seeing.

Elizabeth: 00:35:27

And like you said, seeing them for their, the whole child, not just the easy parts.

Heather: 00:35:34

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:35:34

Because there are.

Elizabeth: 00:35:35

Every child is so unique and so different and I, I think about that all the time with mine.

Elizabeth: 00:35:41

And, and now when I see different things about each one, I think, okay, well that's just who they are.

Elizabeth: 00:35:48

And that's the, that's the day that we're having today.

Elizabeth: 00:35:51

And this is, you know, and it's not, I think there's such this sense that we get of oh, I've got to fix that because it feels uncomfortable.

Elizabeth: 00:35:59

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:36:00

And we don't.

Elizabeth: 00:36:03

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:36:03

They just need to know that we're here, we're seeing them and we're hearing them and we're holding space for them and they learn how to figure things out.

Guest: 00:36:15

Right.

Guest: 00:36:15

And you're the example.

Guest: 00:36:16

Right.

Guest: 00:36:17

So if you are, and you know, you're not always going to be pleasant for your child.

Guest: 00:36:20

Right.

Guest: 00:36:21

Obviously they're also going to have to accept you in all of the phases that you go through with, you know, raising a child.

Guest: 00:36:29

And that's not linear either.

Guest: 00:36:31

Right.

Guest: 00:36:31

It's not pretty.

Guest: 00:36:32

It's hard.

Guest: 00:36:34

There's ebbs and flows in everything.

Guest: 00:36:36

And I think that there's a lot of.

Guest: 00:36:38

When you can give yourself a lot of grace all the way around with raising, you know, your child, but also having the ability to have some self awareness about how you're doing it, being conscious, being a conscious parent as much as possible.

Guest: 00:36:50

Which is difficult, right.

Guest: 00:36:52

To do because it means that you have to stop and think about what you're doing while you're doing it.

Guest: 00:36:57

And not everybody does that.

Guest: 00:36:58

You just go right into mode of like solve the problem or get it done or it has to be this way.

Guest: 00:37:03

And that's, that's, that's that it really narrows your experience as a parent if you're not able to expand beyond what you think or how you think something should go based off of a past experience for being raised a certain way.

Guest: 00:37:20

And that's a missed opportunity because you do want your child to grow and know who they are as soon as they can.

Guest: 00:37:26

I mean, wouldn't it be great if you knew who you were when you were like, you know, 18.

Guest: 00:37:31

I mean, I always think about that.

Guest: 00:37:32

I'm like, if I knew who I was when I was 18, I could have, like, my 20s would have been so much better.

Guest: 00:37:37

You know, I was like trying to figure myself out.

Guest: 00:37:40

And I'm hoping my kids won't have to go through that, you know, as much as possible.

Guest: 00:37:45

Of course they're always going to have questions.

Guest: 00:37:46

They're always going to be curious.

Guest: 00:37:47

I want them to be continue to ask, continue to be curious, continue to explore, and always have that sense of adventure.

Guest: 00:37:56

But they know who they are today based off of how I am raising them, to believe in what they love and to be an individual and not to not be afraid of showing that.

Elizabeth: 00:38:08

And expressing it 100%.

Elizabeth: 00:38:11

Oh my goodness, yes.

Elizabeth: 00:38:13

And I think kind of circling back a little bit, something that I feel like we're all just kind of wired with maybe, maybe comes with like the I had a child and now I feel like I have to be perfect thing like this desire to do everything perfectly.

Elizabeth: 00:38:27

We panic if we don't know the answer to something that's kind of like the initial, like where.

Elizabeth: 00:38:32

Where we all start, perhaps.

Elizabeth: 00:38:36

But what I have found, and it sounds like you have found this too, is like that value in being able to pause and to be human and to be okay with not having the answer right away and to allow your kids to see you because they do what they see, not what they hear.

Elizabeth: 00:39:00

So if they see you giving yourself grace, they see you being messy.

Elizabeth: 00:39:04

They see you, you know, apologizing like that was such a huge thing for me to.

Heather: 00:39:11

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:39:12

When you mess up, you say, I'm sorry.

Elizabeth: 00:39:13

Like, that is such an incredible lesson to teach your kids that.

Elizabeth: 00:39:18

Yeah, even parents mess up.

Elizabeth: 00:39:19

Like, we're totally human and we're just bigger versions of you.

Elizabeth: 00:39:24

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:39:24

Our brains are fully developed.

Elizabeth: 00:39:26

Like, that's about the difference.

Elizabeth: 00:39:27

Right.

Guest: 00:39:28

You don't have any excuse about that.

Guest: 00:39:32

Is that.

Guest: 00:39:33

That's also an experience that we had when we were children.

Guest: 00:39:35

Right.

Guest: 00:39:35

My parents never apologized to me when they did something wrong.

Guest: 00:39:38

Right.

Guest: 00:39:38

And that's not a judgment on them.

Guest: 00:39:40

That's just what they knew at the time.

Elizabeth: 00:39:42

Right.

Guest: 00:39:42

But I know better now.

Guest: 00:39:44

And so if I do make a mistake, I do apologize to my child because I want them to know, yeah, moms make a mess up too.

Guest: 00:39:51

Of course.

Guest: 00:39:51

Of course we do.

Guest: 00:39:53

And that's important for them to know and to understand.

Guest: 00:39:56

And also I need to soften to them as much as I can when I know I'M wrong because it won't feel right for me to just be like, well, you know, I'm just right all the time, and moms are just right, and we have all the answers.

Guest: 00:40:07

I don't.

Guest: 00:40:08

I will often tell them, I don't know, where did that question come from?

Guest: 00:40:11

I usually try to figure out, where is the question coming from and can you answer it yourself?

Guest: 00:40:15

Usually the answer is yes, and they don't have the answer, and I don't have the answer.

Guest: 00:40:21

I tell them, well, let me get back to you.

Guest: 00:40:23

Let's talk about this in a way that we can both understand it.

Guest: 00:40:27

And I think when you can present something that way as well, it's reframed as a learning opportunity for both.

Guest: 00:40:33

It's not just like, oh, Mom's got all the answers, and I can ask any question.

Guest: 00:40:37

You can certainly ask.

Guest: 00:40:38

I don't always have all the answers.

Guest: 00:40:40

And I'm very clear about that, too.

Guest: 00:40:41

I don't pretend to know.

Elizabeth: 00:40:43

Right.

Guest: 00:40:44

And when you don't have to pretend to know, then your child's like, oh, you're just like me.

Guest: 00:40:48

I don't know everything.

Guest: 00:40:49

I'm still learning.

Guest: 00:40:50

I'm still curious.

Guest: 00:40:51

And that's really important to model to your child as well.

Guest: 00:40:54

At least it is from my point of view.

Elizabeth: 00:40:56

Yes.

Elizabeth: 00:40:57

Well, I completely agree with you.

Elizabeth: 00:41:00

And it helps build trust as well.

Elizabeth: 00:41:03

I think when you are able to kind of, those can be very vulnerable moments, right?

Elizabeth: 00:41:09

And when your kids see that, they realize, oh, like, I can do this too.

Elizabeth: 00:41:15

I can trust this person because they are actually a real person.

Elizabeth: 00:41:21

They aren't this.

Elizabeth: 00:41:21

I think, you know, and I think I grew up very similarly to where, you know, I.

Elizabeth: 00:41:26

My parents, it seemed like they were perfect, right?

Elizabeth: 00:41:29

There was no.

Elizabeth: 00:41:30

There was like, just this facade of, like, we don't ever make mistakes.

Elizabeth: 00:41:33

We are fully in charge and control, you know, that whole thing.

Elizabeth: 00:41:37

So kind of.

Elizabeth: 00:41:40

And to your point, that's just what they knew, right?

Elizabeth: 00:41:43

And but realizing, like, oh, like, I don't have to be like that, because that doesn't feel right to me.

Elizabeth: 00:41:50

That's not who I am.

Elizabeth: 00:41:51

And it's kind of a cool thing just to watch how your kids then respond to you and are like, oh, yeah, I can say stuff.

Elizabeth: 00:42:02

And I will tell you, like, to your point, as.

Elizabeth: 00:42:04

As your kids get older.

Elizabeth: 00:42:05

I was having a conversation with Connor just the other day, and he's my oldest one who's in.

Elizabeth: 00:42:11

Just graduated last week from nyu, and.

Guest: 00:42:14

Oh, my gosh, congratulations.

Elizabeth: 00:42:16

I mean, I cannot even.

Elizabeth: 00:42:19

I'm still like, in that space of, like, try not to burst into tears every time I say it because I miss him so much and I am so proud of him.

Elizabeth: 00:42:27

I'm so happy.

Elizabeth: 00:42:27

But he called me and he was like, okay, here's some things that are going on.

Elizabeth: 00:42:31

And the things that he, like, then went on to tell me were going on, I was, like, giggling inside because I thought, you know, eight years ago, you would never have said any of this to me, like, in a million years.

Elizabeth: 00:42:43

And you never would have imagined that you would have called me to say, all right, this is what's going on.

Elizabeth: 00:42:49

What do you think?

Elizabeth: 00:42:52

So it was just one of those, like, really cool moments where I was like, yeah, this is what.

Guest: 00:42:59

Well, you built trust and you created a safe space for him so he could open up.

Guest: 00:43:02

And I think that that's really important.

Guest: 00:43:04

You know, when you create a safe space, when you are telling your child, yeah, you can.

Guest: 00:43:09

You can ask me anything and show me anything and be anyway, and I'll.

Guest: 00:43:15

I'm here.

Guest: 00:43:16

And that's not necessarily something you have to verbally say, but when it shows up and, you know, you're asked a question that maybe makes you uncomfortable or you're saying something that makes you uncomfortable, I always say, start with where.

Guest: 00:43:27

Where does that seed come from?

Guest: 00:43:28

Where was it planted?

Guest: 00:43:31

Can you move beyond it?

Guest: 00:43:32

Because usually the answer is yes, if you're willing to give yourself the space to do it.

Guest: 00:43:36

And if you think about your child and how you were parented, there's even more space because you're like, oh, I see.

Guest: 00:43:43

This came back from a childhood experience.

Guest: 00:43:45

And when you can do that, then your.

Guest: 00:43:48

Your child does feel, you know, more safe to open up to you in ways that you probably, like you said and never expected or could have imagined.

Elizabeth: 00:43:57

Yes, absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:43:59

It is.

Elizabeth: 00:43:59

It's a very, you know, it's.

Elizabeth: 00:44:02

It's humbling.

Elizabeth: 00:44:03

It's just extraordinary.

Elizabeth: 00:44:07

I do just have to giggle all the time because I.

Elizabeth: 00:44:11

I think, oh, my goodness.

Elizabeth: 00:44:13

The.

Elizabeth: 00:44:13

The former version of me would have just died.

Guest: 00:44:19

Right.

Elizabeth: 00:44:20

I mean, with this information.

Elizabeth: 00:44:21

And I just.

Elizabeth: 00:44:22

Just, you know, it's.

Elizabeth: 00:44:25

It is a lot of fun to be able to kind of let all of those pieces go that just don't serve you anymore and, yeah.

Elizabeth: 00:44:33

Aren't who you're meant to be in this world and to just, like, let this stuff come and enjoy it.

Elizabeth: 00:44:40

My goodness.

Elizabeth: 00:44:41

So.

Elizabeth: 00:44:43

And the things we learn, right?

Guest: 00:44:46

Things we are forced to learn, for sure.

Elizabeth: 00:44:50

Oh, my goodness.

Guest: 00:44:51

Okay.

Elizabeth: 00:44:51

Well, I would love to let everyone know how they can find you and where they can look at every, you know, the pieces that you've created.

Elizabeth: 00:45:04

Can they purchase them now, all of these good bits of information and of course they'll be linked and show notes and social media and everything else as well.

Elizabeth: 00:45:14

But just so people can hear.

Guest: 00:45:16

Yes.

Guest: 00:45:17

So you can find my clothing@stereotypekids.com you can sign up for the newsletter and get information directly to your inbox as well as a discount on your first purchase.

Guest: 00:45:29

There's a lot of content there for self reflection.

Guest: 00:45:32

I write a lot of blog posts about parenting, so if you have any curiosity there, that's great to go and check out.

Guest: 00:45:39

I talk about why I started Stereotype more specifically as well.

Guest: 00:45:44

And if you have any questions about your kids, I also take questions from parents and we'll answer those monthly as well in an area called Ask Elizabeth Anything.

Guest: 00:45:54

And those questions go beyond like what if my child wants to have long hair and he's a boy to my daughter, you know, wants to wear her brother's clothing.

Guest: 00:46:05

So there's a good range of topics there.

Guest: 00:46:08

I also answer top about twins if you have twins.

Guest: 00:46:11

So you could do that.

Guest: 00:46:13

You could also find me on Instagram at Stereotype Kids Official and we also have a TikTok page that is at Club STK.

Guest: 00:46:23

So there's a lot of ways to reach out and check us out.

Guest: 00:46:26

And yeah, I hope you do.

Heather: 00:46:29

Absolutely.

Elizabeth: 00:46:30

Oh my goodness, yes.

Elizabeth: 00:46:31

Well, I am so grateful that you've been here today.

Elizabeth: 00:46:33

I was really, really looking forward to our conversation and it was even more than I had hoped.

Elizabeth: 00:46:40

So thank you so much.

Guest: 00:46:42

Thank you.

Guest: 00:46:43

I really enjoyed our conversation as well and I'm looking forward to learning more about what you're doing and supporting you the same.

Elizabeth: 00:46:50

Thank you.

Host: 00:46:53

Thanks so much for joining me today.

Host: 00:46:56

If you enjoyed today's episode, I would be so grateful.

Host: 00:47:00

For a rating or a review, click on the link in the show notes or go to my website chrysalismama.com to stay up to date on my latest resources as well as to learn how you can work with me.

Host: 00:47:16

Please share this podcast with anyone who needs to know that they are not alone and remember to just breathe.

Host: 00:47:25

Until next time.

Guest: 00:47:29

Sa.