Episode 145
The Art of Authenticity in College Essays: A Conversation with Dyllen Nellis
This podcast episode delves into the nuanced realm of college admissions, emphasizing the vital importance of authenticity in the application process. We engage in a profound discussion with Dyllen Nellis, a distinguished college admissions coach and founder of Next Gen Admit, who elucidates how students can effectively communicate their personal narratives and values in their applications. Dyllen advocates for a holistic approach, underscoring that grades and test scores, while significant, do not singularly determine a student’s admission prospects; rather, it is the unique story each applicant brings that truly captivates admissions committees. Throughout our dialogue, we explore strategies for nurturing intellectual curiosity in students, fostering their individual passions, and guiding them in articulating their authentic selves. By the conclusion of the episode, we aim to equip parents and students alike with invaluable insights into navigating the complexities of the college admission landscape.
The discussion unfolds around the challenges and nuances of the college admissions process, particularly emphasizing the transformational journey students encounter while preparing their applications. The speakers reflect on the significance of authentic self-discovery in crafting college essays, noting that the admissions process is not merely a bureaucratic hurdle but a profound opportunity for personal growth. In sharing insights from their conversations, they highlight the misconception that academic grades and test scores are the sole determinants of admission success. Instead, they advocate for a holistic approach, which prioritizes the articulation of personal narratives and values unique to each applicant. The episode serves as a guide for both students and parents, encouraging a shift in perspective towards viewing college admissions as an exploration of identity rather than a mere checklist of achievements.
Takeaways:
- The importance of being judicious in podcast selection to avoid political overload is paramount.
- Engaging in meditation and embracing quiet reflection can greatly enhance one's mental well-being.
- It is essential to recognize that one's narrative and personal experiences hold significant weight in college applications.
- Students should pursue their intellectual curiosity above all else to cultivate a compelling college application.
- The narrative conveyed in college essays must authentically reflect the student's values and experiences, rather than what they think admissions officers want to see.
- Creating a strong college application involves developing a unique story that highlights individual passions and contributions to the academic community.
Links referenced in this episode:
- nextgenadmit.com
- nextgenadmit.com/masterclass
- Dyllen Nellis on YouTube
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Email: hh@chrysalismama.com
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Transcript
Welcome back.
Speaker B:I am really glad you are here.
Speaker B:In recent weeks, I've become really judicious about which podcasts I listen to and when.
Speaker B:And I've learned to really honor the signals my body and mind give when I am on political overload or I'm feeling overwhelmed, or when I'm beginning to slide into a dark place.
Speaker B:I'm beginning to spend a lot more time in the morning meditating and just being still and present.
Speaker B:And I'm working on ending each day with something that allows my mind and body to relax instead of keeping it completely jacked up by endlessly scrolling until I can't keep my eyes open any longer.
Speaker B:Some days that means I'm reading a book, others that means I'm watching a show.
Speaker B:And I'm currently working my way toward hopping in the sauna or taking a bath at the end of the day because those just feel like the ultimate bedtime routine.
Speaker B:I'm searching for balance, as I know that you are too.
Speaker B:We want to stay informed, we want to take action, and we want to stay well because we know this is a marathon beyond the Breath My Friday informal podcast has been an incredible way for me to share my thoughts on current events.
Speaker B:Let me know if you have topics you'd like for me to address.
Speaker B:I love hearing what's resonating with you.
Speaker B:I really contemplated when to schedule today's guest in my podcast release calendar because her topic is one that really might be more relevant in a month or two.
Speaker B:However, I also think that positivity keeps us hopeful and discussing subjects other than politics keeps us moving forward with confidence and courage.
Speaker B:I also love any opportunity to uplift queer voices, young voices, women's voices, and today I get to do all three.
Speaker B:A few weeks ago, I had the opportunity to chat with a most impressive young adult who is accomplishing really cool things in the world while living so beautifully and authentically.
Speaker B:Dylan Nellis is a college admissions coach and founder of Next Gen Admit.
Speaker B:After gaining acceptance to every school she applied to and attending Stanford University, Dylan started NextGen Admit to help high school students effectively convey their personal values, authentic experiences and potential in standout college applications.
Speaker B:Her students come from around the globe and have been accepted to the country's most competitive universities.
Speaker B:Dylan has a special gift of being able to connect with teens and help them peel back the layers and share authentically.
Speaker B:Parents of high school students listen carefully to her step, her tips, and then reach out to her.
Speaker B:She is a breath of fresh air and she will help you and your child during a time that is even more chaotic than ever before.
Speaker B:Welcome back, everyone.
Speaker B:I am so glad that you are here and I am really, really delighted to welcome Dylan to the show today to discuss a topic that we've never discussed here before, which I cannot believe.
Speaker B:In five and a half years, we have not touched on the college process because we talk about college a lot on the show.
Speaker B:Connor has gone through college.
Speaker B:Two, three of my kids are, have gone through the process since I've been doing the show.
Speaker B:So I'm really excited to welcome you on and talk about what you do in the world and how you have kind of a unique view of the whole college process.
Speaker B:So thank you for being here.
Speaker A:Yay.
Speaker A:Thank you for having me.
Speaker A:I'm super excited to dive into this stuff.
Speaker B:Well, I loved when you reached out.
Speaker B:You were so enthusiastic.
Speaker B:There was something that just spoke to me and I thought, okay, you have to be on the show.
Speaker B:Parents are going to really relate to you and think that you have a very unique combination of, of traits and what you do and how you do it.
Speaker B:And you've just lived this experience.
Speaker B:I think you're around Connor's age, maybe a little bit older, and so you're not far removed from doing all of this yourself.
Speaker B:So you have a very deep understanding of how this works.
Speaker B:So why don't we start with you just giving a brief.
Speaker B:This is what I do.
Speaker B:This is what my company is.
Speaker B:This is why I'm so passionate about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I'm a college admissions coach.
Speaker A:I help high achieving students get into their dream schools.
Speaker A:I tend to work with students who really want to get into the top, top universities and I help them get there.
Speaker A:I, I think what would be helpful is if I backtrack and give you some background on my story.
Speaker A: lying to college, that was in: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I did not know what to do at all.
Speaker A:There was like barely any help at my high school.
Speaker A:Just one college counselor, like the entire school.
Speaker A:And yeah, it wasn't a lot of strategy given there.
Speaker A:You know, college counselors will often help with like, logistics, side of things, or like fill out this form, but they don't tell you.
Speaker A:Okay, here's actually the strategy that it takes to get in, especially the college essay strategy, which is so important.
Speaker A:And so I had to do a lot of that work all on my own.
Speaker A:And I did a ton of research online and reading books and articles and all these things and was really fascinated by this process because it allowed me to learn so much about myself and the college essay.
Speaker A:A lot of people will think that it's like the worst thing ever.
Speaker A:And they'll come out of the process being like, oh, I hated that.
Speaker A:I never want to think about the college process ever again.
Speaker A:But for me, I felt very differently because for not like the first, like, kind of, it allowed me to really think about who I was as a person and what I wanted to contribute and what my values were and what I'd gone through, what my experiences were.
Speaker A:And I had to understand myself at such a deep level in order to communicate that to somebody else.
Speaker A:And so I came out of the process being like, oh my God, I know who I am now, and that's so cool.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:I now have a clearer direction of where I want to go in life.
Speaker A:I have more confidence in myself.
Speaker A:And I grew as a writer as well because I was able to articulate that in college essays.
Speaker A:And so anyways, I got accepted into every school that I applied to.
Speaker A:I was very shocked.
Speaker A:Um, and I committed to Stanford University.
Speaker A:So I did my four years of college.
Speaker A:However, I took a gap year during COVID So that was like right after my freshman year of college, you know, everything was shut down.
Speaker A:I was like, no way, I'm not doing online schools.
Speaker A:And then during that time when I was just at home for a whole year is when I actually started this business.
Speaker A:It started with me posting videos on YouTube because I just wanted to share what I'd learned.
Speaker A:And then so many people, like, really resonated with everything that I was saying and was like, oh my God, can you edit my essay?
Speaker A:Can I hop on a call with you?
Speaker A:And at that time, I was not busy at all because it was during COVID so I was like, sure.
Speaker A:And then through that, I started to learn so much more through replicating those results with other students and helping them discover who they were as people and articulating that.
Speaker A:And that was just so cool.
Speaker A:It lit me up.
Speaker A:And then I hired other people to help me so when I went back into college, I wouldn't be struggling so much, so ran a full time company while in college.
Speaker A:That was very hard.
Speaker B:I can imagine.
Speaker B:Oh my goodness.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A: I just recently graduated in: Speaker A:I help other people.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:What an empowering process.
Speaker B:Because having had four or my fourth, is a junior right now in high school, and, and watching them and just knowing how overwhelming that process can be, and it's just a tough time.
Speaker B:Like you are just as a human being trying to figure out who you are in this world and where you fit.
Speaker B:And when I, a million years ago, was going into college, you didn't necessarily need to know exactly what you wanted to do.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You didn't need to make that decision before you got to college.
Speaker B:And that is being asked of you so much more now, or at least to have a.
Speaker B:A general idea, have it narrowed down, you know, however you want to say that.
Speaker B:So I'm very curious about your process and what you figured out.
Speaker B:And why don't we just talk about first before we go into your process, some of the myths that really cause parents anxiety and that cause kids anxiety.
Speaker B:Cause I imagine they're different.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Well, I think one thing that is probably common among both parents and kids is that they think that your grades and your test scores are everything and, like, so focused.
Speaker A:All of us who, like, get good grades, get good grades, like, oh, my God, I gotta be like, the world is over.
Speaker A:I'm not gonna get into my dream school.
Speaker A:Let's.
Speaker A:Let's take a breath.
Speaker A:Because, yes, if you want to go to top school, obviously grades are important.
Speaker A:And a lot of people who get into these schools tend to have 4.0 GPA or above, or they're valedictorian, whatever.
Speaker A:But the thing with that is that the grades don't set you apart.
Speaker A:They're not the thing that's actually going to get you in.
Speaker A:Like, sure, there's like a benchmark of the grades that you should have, but also there is wiggle room, and you can look it up, like the stats for what kind of students get accepted to the school.
Speaker A:You'll see you don't always have to have the perfect grades or the perfect scores because admissions is holistic.
Speaker A:And holistic means they take into account many different factors when reviewing your application profile.
Speaker A:So no one factor is going to completely rule you out.
Speaker A:Necessary leaks.
Speaker A:So what I think and what I tell people is way more important is your story.
Speaker A:Who you are as a person matters so much.
Speaker A:Because sure, there are going to be other people who have the same grades as you, maybe even the same extracurriculars, but nobody has your lived experience and your story and your unique values.
Speaker A:And so if you can focus on that and really understand who you are and be able to communicate that in a very strategic yet authentic way, then that's gonna be what sets you apart.
Speaker B:Let's say that your child is really wanting an IV or like, a higher tier school.
Speaker A:Mm.
Speaker B:The grades have to be there in order to get you to this next part.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Or no.
Speaker A:Yes, yes, that is the truth.
Speaker A:But I think it's about like priorities, I guess.
Speaker A:Especially if we're talking about like earlier in high school, you know, not when you're a senior and you're actually ready to start the application process.
Speaker A:But if you're thinking about the development of a student during high school.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Try to get good grades.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not saying don't get good grades, but I don't think that you should like spend all of your time studying and sitting at your desk and reading a textbook because you know, the next important thing is extracurriculars.
Speaker A:You gotta build your extracurricular profile.
Speaker A:And I also don't think that necessarily parents should force a kid to do a certain extracurricular or what they think will stand out when they don't actually know.
Speaker A:The most important thing is nurturing a student's intellectual curiosity.
Speaker A:Because intellectual curiosity is like the number one thing that these top, top colleges look for.
Speaker A:And a lot of that comes from intrinsic motivation.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:They have to actually feel it inside of their gut, their heart and be super interested in whatever it is that they want to pursue and do things related to that.
Speaker A:Now they don't necessarily have to know, like, this is what I want my whole life to be in my career.
Speaker A:I don't agree with that.
Speaker A:And I also understand that people's lives change and that's so normal.
Speaker A:Like at Stanford also side tangent, like people change their majors all the time, multiple times.
Speaker A:It's so normal.
Speaker A:So the point is, when you're in high school, they want to band in colleges, they want to see that you're doing things that light you up.
Speaker A:So if you are interested in like computer science, for example, or engineering, do little side projects.
Speaker A:Like it's totally cool to spend your time messing around on the computer and making little coding projects or making little robotics projects.
Speaker A:And then once you get your skill, maybe try a summer program related to that, maybe join a club, maybe start your own club.
Speaker A:Like those are the things that need to happen throughout the high school experience before you're ready to actually create your story.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:I mean, this is, this is really good advice for people who have kids who are even in middle school still.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's really kind of helping your child be that well rounded student and, and not pulling them out of things that you may feel are frivolous but actually are things that the child feels passionately about and could potentially set them apart as a student.
Speaker B:So I appreciate you saying that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Can I jump in?
Speaker A:Actually yeah, of course.
Speaker A:About the, the term well rounded student.
Speaker A:Oh, it, it's a tricky one actually in the like college admissions space.
Speaker A:Because I like the term actually, because it's like I, this is my personal beliefs.
Speaker A:I think it is great for people to have skills and experiences in many different areas.
Speaker A:And I am someone who is very interdisciplinary and I like to do things in a lot of different realms as well.
Speaker A:However, another thing for top school admissions is they tend to like spiky applications more than well rounded ones.
Speaker A:I put both of those in quotes.
Speaker A:Have you heard of that?
Speaker B:I haven't.
Speaker B:I would say explain what spiky means.
Speaker A:This is another misconception.
Speaker A:A lot of people think like, oh, that means I have to just do one thing.
Speaker A:You know, if I've committed myself to engineering, like all of my extracurriculars have to be about engineering.
Speaker A:I have to write my college essay about how I love engineering.
Speaker A:Like everything has to be about one thing.
Speaker A:That's not the case.
Speaker A:Basically they do want to see that you have a sense of direction, kind of as we've been talking about, and that you're doing things that you are curious about but going deep into them.
Speaker A:So it looks better if you spend, you know, several years in a certain program or volunteer or project, whatever, like really dedicating yourself because it's something that you're so into and so passionate about and you can grow and scale that project and impact.
Speaker A:Lots of people, you know, bring, bring the scale wider in terms of your impact and your reach versus oh, I'm just going to do a couple volunteer hours here and there and then I'm going to do this random collab and then I'm going to do this other thing like that doesn't look as good to top colleges to position this in a positive light because I know it's like, gosh, then I can't do a lot of things.
Speaker A:That's once again not exactly the case.
Speaker A:It's that they don't want to see that you're just doing a bunch of random things because you think that that's going to look good on the application.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, that makes a thousand percent sense and I think that I'm glad you clarified that because that is, I believe also to be very, very important.
Speaker B:And I've watched with, you know, each of my own kids as they've all done very, very different things, but have made sure that they've been things that they are really, you know, like my one daughter was in Science Olympiad for seven years.
Speaker B:She was dancer for A long time different.
Speaker B:They were very different things that she was doing, but she was also, had been doing them for a long time and was very dedicated to each one and had spent a lot of time with each one of them.
Speaker B:And then another one is very artistic.
Speaker B:Another one is like uber focused on sports.
Speaker B:And so it's, it's funny to like see.
Speaker B:And I actually was talking to a friend the other day and, and her first child is just, she's just going through this process for the first time and she, she's very high achieving and she says, you know, I'm looking at all this stuff about my son and I'm wishing that he hadn't dropped out of this and I wish he had kept with this.
Speaker B:And I'm realizing how remarkably average my child is.
Speaker B:I was like, oh my God.
Speaker B:Just like, okay, there is a place for everyone.
Speaker B:Like, I understand how you might want your child.
Speaker B:And this and I think is a very important thing that I'd love for you to touch on where the parent so desperately wants their child to go to a school that's maybe up here because they did, or that's what their focus has been on the whole 18 years of their child's life or whatever.
Speaker B:But the child is kind of like, I'm good here and I, I, I'm looking at more of a wide view or whatever.
Speaker B:So I'd love to talk about like, how to manage how a parent can manage their own desires while help guide their child and support their child through this process.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, that's a really good point to bring up because I've had parents, you know, jump on a call with me and they're like, I want my kid to go to a good school.
Speaker A:Okay, let's define what good means, right?
Speaker A:Because so many schools are great.
Speaker A:Yes, great.
Speaker A:Just because, you know, it doesn't have the brand name of Harvard or Princeton, whatever, doesn't mean that it's not a great school, that you're not going to get an amazing education and that wonderful opportunities will come out of that.
Speaker A:That's not the case.
Speaker A:Like, of course you can.
Speaker A:It's, it's less about the school, it's more about the person and what they choose to do with the opportunities and the resources that they are given, you know, whether they take advantage of them.
Speaker A:And another thing about prestige is it's, it's more about like the type of students that they accept versus the quality of education.
Speaker A:I think I read that somewhere that talked about that in depth and I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker A:And made sense.
Speaker A:It's like they're admitting students who are already achieving at a certain level at age 17.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:But it's correlation causation.
Speaker A:Like, point is, there's a lot of great education in many different schools.
Speaker A:And I think what's most important is for, I would say, both actually the parent and the student to do a lot of research into these colleges to see is that actually what I want, is that aligned with me, do they have the programs that I want and will help me succeed?
Speaker A:And I encourage students to get, like, really nitty gritty with their research.
Speaker A:Like, look at the classes.
Speaker A:Read the description.
Speaker A:Look at who's teaching the classes.
Speaker A:What is that person done?
Speaker A:What you know, what kind of work do they have?
Speaker A:What kind of research opportunities are there?
Speaker A:Does that align with what you want?
Speaker A:Oh, and also, like, the values of the school and the department and their approach to teaching and learning.
Speaker A:Is that what you want?
Speaker A:Because if it's not, you don't have to apply there.
Speaker A:Even if it's a top school.
Speaker A:That's totally fine.
Speaker B:Yeah, Yeah, I.
Speaker B:I appreciate that very, very much.
Speaker B:I think that is very, very important.
Speaker B:Let's talk a little bit about writing these essays, because that is a huge piece of.
Speaker B:Of what you do, and I think what differentiates.
Speaker B:And there are two things that you brought up that I think really stood out to me.
Speaker B:One being the importance of authenticity along with the strategy.
Speaker B:And in that, being able to help guide the student to really.
Speaker B:And it's what you did.
Speaker B:It sounds like really guiding that student to connect with their.
Speaker B:Their values and, like, being able to see, like, wow, this is who I am.
Speaker B:And those, like, really deeply empowering moments.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:So I think first, it's really easy to get lost in the noise of the college application process.
Speaker A:And there's so many people and things telling you what to do as a student.
Speaker A:You have your parents, like, you should do this, you should do that.
Speaker A:You know, when they might not quite know also.
Speaker A:And then you have your college counselor telling you what to do.
Speaker A:Or if you, like, hired an outside college consultant, they're telling you what to do.
Speaker A:And then there's advice on the Internet telling you what to do.
Speaker A:And on TikTok.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, on TikTok, like, that's a whole world, too.
Speaker A:And a lot of people get their education and advice from there, too.
Speaker A:So it gets really convoluted in a student's mind.
Speaker A:And then ultimately, what I see a lot of students do is they write what they think.
Speaker A:The admissions officer wants to Hear, but they're not actually writing a story that conveys who they truly are.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:And so I had a student recently got rejected from Stanford, early restrictive action.
Speaker A:And she had, she had all the things, you know, like the grades, the extracurriculars.
Speaker A:And she was like, I don't understand what happened.
Speaker A:And I read her essay and immediately I knew because I've gotten to this point where I can diagnose it in like literally a second.
Speaker A:I read her essay and basically she was just writing what she thought she should write, and she was reciting a series of events from her life that showed what she had done, what she had achieved.
Speaker A:And by the end of the incident, I was like, okay, but I didn't learn anything about who you are.
Speaker A:Like, I know you started this non graduate, I know you're interested in this specific major, but I have no idea why.
Speaker A:I don't really understand what drives you.
Speaker A:And what was crazy also is the fact that she actually worked with an outside consultant.
Speaker A:Her family hired somebody else to help her with this, but he barely helped with that as well, clearly.
Speaker A:And like, it was not.
Speaker A:Did not provide the kind of feedback that you need for a top school like Stanford.
Speaker A:It's just, it's so strategic at this point, which I have complicated feelings about.
Speaker A:So basically I worked with her to first unpack who she was not.
Speaker A:Usually when I hop on a call with a student like this, I'm not like, okay, let's edit the essay.
Speaker A:You know, change a few sentences, change a few words.
Speaker A:I'm like, no, no, no, we need to go back to the drawing board and really like, figure out what it is you're trying to get across.
Speaker A:What are you saying?
Speaker A:And so through this process, she learned so much more about who she was.
Speaker A:And that was really cool.
Speaker A:I've had another student who, where I will ask, okay, why are you interested in this major?
Speaker A:And they'll be like, oh, well, when I was little, I did this camp and then I did this club and I did this.
Speaker A:I was like, okay, okay, you're telling me what you've done.
Speaker A:Let me ask you again.
Speaker A:Why are you interested in this subject?
Speaker A:Like, what about the subject itself?
Speaker A:Like, gets you going?
Speaker A:And then she again, like, answered with more things that she had done.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, yeah.
Speaker A:So we repeat that process until I really get to the core of it, which a lot of times is something very inherent to who they are as a person.
Speaker A:Like, oh, I.
Speaker A:I like to solve problems methodically or like, I'm very organized person, or I Like, looking at the whole picture before I look at the details, you know, like, certain.
Speaker A:There are certain values like that, and we can figure out what the unique one is for the student that comes from talking with them and doing that process, which is really hard to do alone.
Speaker A:I will acknowledge, especially when these students, you know, at this age, you don't think a lot about who you are as a person.
Speaker B:Well, I was gonna say that.
Speaker B:That is not something that I feel like kids are really challenged on.
Speaker B:There's so much of, like, you need to learn these subjects.
Speaker B:You need to figure out what you want to do.
Speaker B:You do these activities.
Speaker B:But there's not a lot of, like, reflective.
Speaker B:Why.
Speaker B:Why do I do better at math than I do at English?
Speaker B:Or why do I really enjoy this.
Speaker B:This class over here instead of this class?
Speaker B:Or.
Speaker B:Or this activity over this activity?
Speaker B:There's none of.
Speaker B:There's not really any of that.
Speaker A:And that's why I say, like, working with a college admissions coach on your college essays can feel a lot like therapy.
Speaker A:And when I tell people about what I do, they're like, oh, my God, you're like a therapist.
Speaker A:I'm like, that's so funny, because, yes, we are, like, fully unpacking somebody else's stuff, and we're gonna get vulnerable.
Speaker A:They get really vulnerable with me and telling me their entire life story, their challenges, their childhood experiences, like, the relationships that they have to the people in their lives and all the things that have shaped them to who they are today.
Speaker A:And that's why if a parent or a family is hiring a college admissions coach, I think you have to really trust them and really make sure that this person, like, can hold that weight, I guess, and that the child, more importantly, that the student feels very comfortable being so vulnerable with this person, because they're gonna get to know each other real well.
Speaker A:Like, especially if they're working for.
Speaker A:Together for, like, months.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Well, I feel like you've.
Speaker B:You've hit on something that I don't know that I've ever heard any other person talk about before.
Speaker B:I haven't worked with any.
Speaker B:With a college admission coach for any of my kids for various reasons.
Speaker B:Not because I think there's anything wrong with them.
Speaker B:We just haven't.
Speaker B:But just thinking.
Speaker B:I don't know that I've ever heard any of my friends who've used them say anything like this.
Speaker B:Like, the personal relationship, like that.
Speaker B:That level of getting to know someone and allowing someone to guide you through a process that can be so vulnerable and should be so vulnerable and should be something that is deeply personal.
Speaker A:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker A:And I think people, yeah, people don't talk about that a lot.
Speaker A:And I'm, I've been trying to think in my head like, why?
Speaker A:And part of it, part of it might be just that like some college consultants themselves, like don't do this level of depth that I do with my students.
Speaker A:And I've heard from other people, you know, it's just like, ah, check in meetings.
Speaker A:Oh, how's it going?
Speaker A:Good.
Speaker A:Okay, I can review your essay.
Speaker A:Yeah, whatever.
Speaker A:Once again, I'm like, oh my God.
Speaker A:That's not giving them the strategy that they actually need to.
Speaker B:Well, in the strategy and this type of work actually you would save time in the long run.
Speaker A:So much time.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Because then you're drilling down on exactly what needs to be done and you're not out there.
Speaker B:Like I feel like so much of this is just like throwing spaghetti at the wall.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And seeing, seeing what sticks.
Speaker B:This is like a very targeted approach, correct?
Speaker A:Yes, very targeted.
Speaker A:And that's why I tell students like, don't write the essay until you first identify your values.
Speaker A:Identified.
Speaker A:What's the theme of my essay written?
Speaker A:A full on outline, like step by step of what you're going to talk about in every single paragraph.
Speaker A:Because this is storytelling.
Speaker A:It is, it is literally storytelling.
Speaker A:It's all about crafting a story.
Speaker A:There's different ways to do it and I have different strategies that I teach.
Speaker A:There's gonna be this theme that's conveys your main values and then how you tell the story is so important.
Speaker A:That's why I always, I don't really believe in the idea of like cliche essay topics or essay topics that you should avoid.
Speaker A:Because I'm like, you can talk about anything.
Speaker A:Well, not, not anything, anything.
Speaker A:But most things you can talk about, it just depends on how you're doing it.
Speaker A:Because you have to do it in a way that is creative, unique and authentic and that positions you as a standout applicant.
Speaker A:Oh, and this is, this is taking me to another point that I would love to talk about.
Speaker A:Hero stories versus some stories.
Speaker B:Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker A:Our understanding of why suddenly people think that you need a sub story to get into college.
Speaker A:Because it's not.
Speaker A:Colleges are admitting you because you experienced hardship.
Speaker A:Not like, oh my God, you went through some horrible things.
Speaker A:Yay.
Speaker A:Like I'm gonna admit it doesn't work like that.
Speaker A:They're admitting students because of the skills that they've gained, the strengths that they have and the values that they develop by persevering through their challenges.
Speaker A:So the focus of your essay should be your struggle, your struggles, or your challenges.
Speaker A:Like, yes, a lot of times the prompt will ask you about challenges, and that's.
Speaker A:Of course, they want to letter out your experiences, but that should not be the focus of your essay, and that is not the theme of your essay.
Speaker A:And a lot of times people will be like, oh, I'm writing an essay about blank.
Speaker A:Whatever that topic is.
Speaker A:People will replace that with their challenge.
Speaker A:And they're like, no, no, no, that's not even.
Speaker A:That's not the topic.
Speaker A:That's the topic of your essay.
Speaker A:The topic is whatever theme that we're conveying, whatever values that you're conveying.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:The whole thing that you're through isn't through story.
Speaker A:Like, that's the external events that got you to this maybe internal realization and then maybe other external events that you've done.
Speaker A:Like, after learning this lesson, I then went around to help other people by starting this organization.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:There are struggles that define who you are, what was not your identity.
Speaker A:Your.
Speaker A:Your identity is not your hardship.
Speaker A:And also your identity is not your accomplishments.
Speaker A:You know, as I was talking about a long example.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker A:So we have to figure out is your identity.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Which goes back to the original, you know, part of the work.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Before you even get to the topic.
Speaker B:I appreciate you breaking that down.
Speaker B:Um, I do think that.
Speaker B:And it kind of leads into, you know, writing about sensitive subjects.
Speaker B:How personal is too personal.
Speaker B:And it really.
Speaker B:Both of those kind of circle.
Speaker B:Again, back to writing about the lesson.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:I am resilient because I learned to persevere through fill in the blank.
Speaker B:I don't ever give up because fill in the blank.
Speaker B:And that is very important thing to point out because I have.
Speaker B:I have noticed that in topics that have.
Speaker B:Have been run by me.
Speaker B:And interestingly and without knowing this, but it's probably why he got in to nyu.
Speaker B:Connor did write his essay on his coming out story, but it was through what he learned, where he was at that point when he was writing it.
Speaker B:So the lessons learned through the different pieces, the different things that he went through, that's just fascinating.
Speaker B:And I at the time, didn't think about it.
Speaker B:I just thought, oh, wow.
Speaker B:Bravo.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:When you look back, you're like, oh, it makes sense.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's gonna be so excited.
Speaker B:You knew the formula.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Another thing I'd love to talk about is how a lot of college consultants and parents too, they might know that.
Speaker A:They might know, like, oh, I need to convey this lesson at the end of the essay.
Speaker A:But the way that they force that onto a kid can be not authentic.
Speaker A:So we have to be careful of that as well.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker A:Where they, like, force them into a certain box or, like, a certain narrative, because they're like, oh, I know, it needs to be a story, so let's go tweaks to the story and, like, make sure our kids saw those narrative points.
Speaker A:That can also be another problem, because I've read several essays where I read that, and I'm like, okay, I see what's happening here.
Speaker A:It's so obvious to me because I read thousands of essays.
Speaker A:So I, I.
Speaker A:After they read the essay, I'll be like, okay, what actually happened?
Speaker A:You can tell me.
Speaker A:And then they tell me what actually happened.
Speaker A:I'm like, yeah, that's what I thought.
Speaker A:So then we, you know, we'll make some adjustments to the story.
Speaker A:We're not going to change the whole topic of the essay, but, like, change how they're writing about it and the outline.
Speaker A:So then it's more authentic and we create or we bring in those rich details.
Speaker A:I think that's really interesting.
Speaker A:The thing about, like, authentic applications is when you write through the lens of, like, authenticity, you're gonna come out with a more unique essay that's going to help you stand out, because you're not trying to fit this mold of a narrative that you think it has to be.
Speaker A:When you make a narrative that is, like, what you think gets into schools, you're going to miss out on all the nuance, the emotions, those details, and the debt that come from the reality of your lived experience.
Speaker B:Right, right.
Speaker B:And again, I think circling back to doing that work of really figuring out who you are.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And writing from a place of this is who I am in this world, as opposed to this is who this college is looking for me to be in this world.
Speaker B:Um, and I think when a kid, especially, you know, a young person, young adult, can really connect and do that work of, like, figuring out who they are.
Speaker B:Oh, my gosh.
Speaker B:Like, hugely important.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Not even just for the college essay.
Speaker A:For their entire life.
Speaker A:For everything.
Speaker B:For everything.
Speaker B:Because it takes people, most people, a long time to do that work and to figure it out and to figure out that that's how you really are successful in life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So being able to figure that out as, like, you're, like, unlocking the key to colleges and getting into what you may have initially thought were your dream colleges.
Speaker B:Once you do that, they may not be your dream colleges.
Speaker B:They may still be, but they also may not be.
Speaker B:So I think that's a really, I think it's phenomenal what you've hit on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We're gonna wrap up in a couple of minutes, so I wanna hear thoughts that you would like to leave parents and then how people can find you.
Speaker A:Yeah, one, so we covered nurturing their intellectual curiosity.
Speaker A:I think that's really important for parents to do.
Speaker A:Encouraging them to explore their own interests, giving them agency, pursue their own ideas, while also supporting them along the way.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not saying step away, like, absolutely.
Speaker A:Support, support, Provide other ideas, other suggestions, use your connections.
Speaker A:Like, I really am thankful for my own parents for helping me in that way.
Speaker A:And in terms of like learning about who a kid is, you can engage in conversations, seek to understand your child and like, what matters to them and why.
Speaker A:And by asking those questions, you can really find what lights them up.
Speaker A:And, and then there you can find like that intrinsic motivation.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Which is what we need to have in ripples.
Speaker A:A, like, it has to be so clear on paper that the kid actually feels this way and is very, like approaches things because they want to, they genuinely want to.
Speaker A:It's important to focus on how you, as a student, and I'm talking about the student, can contribute to the university.
Speaker A:Because these colleges, they pride themselves in their rankings.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:They pride themselves in their successful alumni as well, who go on to impact the world in big ways.
Speaker A:And so they're only able to maintain this level of prestige, but accepting students who will add, you know, unique perspectives, diversity of experiences.
Speaker A:And that intellectual curiosity talked about adding that to their community.
Speaker A:So when you write your college essays, this is especially relevant for the essay that asks, why are you interested in our college?
Speaker A:Why do you want to go here?
Speaker A:That is you saying, here's how I'm going to help you.
Speaker A:It's, don't think of it, you know, the other way around.
Speaker A:It's like, oh, at this college I'm going to get all this stuff.
Speaker A:I'm, you know, the receiver.
Speaker A:It's like, no, no, no.
Speaker A:You're also giving to the college and that's what they want to see.
Speaker A:So in those essays, you really want to paint the picture for them as to like, how are you going to make great use of their resources and their opportunities to then create some sort of large scale impact or positively impact the world?
Speaker B:Love that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:They want to see that you're going to be able to succeed at their university.
Speaker B:Right, right again.
Speaker B:Good flip of that question.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:How can people find you?
Speaker A:You can find me@next gen.com down and then admit like a person that gets admitted into a school.
Speaker A:Old D mit.com, you could also just look up my name on the Internet and I will come up or on YouTube.
Speaker A:I'm big on YouTube.
Speaker A:I love rambling on and on about many different topics related to this stuff.
Speaker A:So you can find me on YouTube just by searching Dylan Nellis.
Speaker A:Oh, also, I want to plug if anyone's interested in a free masterclass that I have.
Speaker A:I have a full hour long masterclass where I talk about the top school admissions formula and I go into a lot more depth and specifics.
Speaker A:This is really, really useful information that I wish that I had when I was starting out.
Speaker A:So it's totally free and you can register for that@nextgenadmit.com Masterclass.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:That's amazing.
Speaker B:I'll have all of this in the show notes, so if anybody was madly writing, don't worry.
Speaker B:Um, you can just scroll down and click on it through the show notes and you will be able to find Dylan.
Speaker B:And I'm so, so thrilled that you, you've reached out and that you are on the show today.
Speaker B:This was so much fun talking with you.
Speaker B:I'm so incredibly impressed with who you are in this world and what you've accomplished already.
Speaker B:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:Look out, world.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:I'm kind of blessed and I love hearing your story and how you resonate with things too.
Speaker A:It's nice to hear from other partners.
Speaker B:Well, thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you so much.
Speaker B:So good to have.
