Episode 142
Empowering Trans Voices: A Discussion with Leading Counselor, Alexander Stefanini
The chaotic and often nonsensical nature of contemporary information necessitates a more nuanced discourse surrounding the experiences of marginalized communities, particularly the trans and queer individuals. In this episode, I am privileged to engage with Alexander Stefanini, a licensed professional counselor and the owner of Arrive Therapy, an LGBTQ+ counseling practice dedicated to serving trans and queer clients of all ages. Alexander elucidates the complexities inherent in the coming out process, emphasizing that transitions are rarely solitary endeavors; they necessitate the involvement and understanding of one's familial and social networks. Furthermore, we explore the multifaceted support mechanisms that Arrive Therapy provides, including specialized groups for both trans individuals and their families, thereby fostering a holistic approach to mental health and identity affirmation. Through our discussion, we endeavor to illuminate the pressing need for empathy, education, and allyship in these uncertain times, advocating for a collective journey toward understanding and acceptance.
Takeaways:
- The current era is characterized by an overwhelming abundance of chaotic and nonsensical information.
- Engaging in conversations with individuals most affected by issues can enhance understanding significantly.
- The importance of supporting not only trans individuals but also their families during transitions cannot be overstated.
- Creating safe spaces for trans youth is essential in fostering their mental health and identity.
- The process of coming out as trans is often more complicated than coming out as gay, requiring systemic support.
- Allies can play a crucial role in advocating for trans rights by educating themselves and actively participating in their communities.
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Transcript
We are in a time where information is chaotic, shocking, and much of it nonsensical.
Speaker A:Today, I'm honored to welcome a guest to help us parse through a segment of our current events.
Speaker A:One of the best ways to understand anything is to talk to those who are most affected or who the pundits are talking about.
Speaker A:Alexander Stefanini is a licensed professional counselor, trans man and the owner of Arrive Therapy.
Speaker A: en a licensed counselor since: Speaker A:Currently he is the owner and clinical director of Arrive Therapy, which is an all LGBTQ+ counseling practice that works primarily with trans and queer folks of all ages.
Speaker A:Arrive has a unique team of all trans and gay therapists who work with clients on mental health and gender identity and sexuality.
Speaker A:Another focus of Arrive is supporting parents of trans kids, teens and adults when their child has come out as trans or gay.
Speaker A:Arrive also offers support groups, including Trans Teen support Groups, Trans Adult Support groups, and Parents of trans Kids support groups.
Speaker A:Without further ado, I am delighted to welcome Alexander.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Just Breathe, everyone.
Speaker B:I am so, so excited to introduce today's guest.
Speaker B:Alexander.
Speaker B:Thank you so much for being here with me today.
Speaker B:It's very timely conversation.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, we're going to start out really broad and I want everyone to know a little bit about who you are, what you do in this world and we will go from there.
Speaker C:All right, awesome.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:I am Alexander Stefanini.
Speaker C:My pronouns are he, him.
Speaker C:I am a licensed professional counselor.
Speaker C:I've been licensed for 20 years and been doing family work, individual therapy, community mental health and I'm dad of two kids and I am the owner of Aride Therapy which is a trans focused all LGBTQ counseling practice.
Speaker C:It's a group counseling practice that does regular mental health therapy as really working with families and folks on transition related stuff, gender identity and gender dysphoria.
Speaker C:Twenty years ago when I got licensed, I was in my 20s.
Speaker C:I actually wasn't specifically doing work with trans folks or LGBTQ folks.
Speaker C:I was historically I'm a family therapist.
Speaker C:So I did a lot of intensive in home, a lot of crisis work, really working with people, kids that were in crisis and then their systems, including families, neighborhoods, other support folks.
Speaker C:So I did that for many years and got moved up into supervision roles, clinical supervisor type roles.
Speaker C:And it really wasn't until I came out and started transitioning about seven, eight years ago that people started coming to me and saying, you know, I have a trans client that's coming out of this program or I have A trans somebody who's coming out and can you see them?
Speaker C:So they're just in where I was outside of Philadelphia, there weren't at that time really any trans providers.
Speaker C:And so at that time I was like, well, I haven't really studied gender studies, but I'm going through this.
Speaker C:And so let me see if the intersection of my personal experience and my professional experience will help me provide good care for folks that are transitioning or exploring their gender identity.
Speaker C:So, you know, for me, I've really learned that people don't transition in isolation.
Speaker C:There's no way to really transition in isolation.
Speaker C:You're gonna, your, your family has to transition with you, your friends have to transition with you, work has to transition with you.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So anywhere that you come out and you share who you are, for people to stay in your life, they really do need to kind of transition with you.
Speaker C:And so being a family systems therapist has really dovetailed really nicely with that because one of the focuses that's really important to me when people come in here and they're, you know, talking about transitioning, our parents come in with their teenagers, is to be really looking at their whole system and how can we support everybody around them, you know, breaking down their own stereotypes, asking questions, learning, and kind of beginning to shift how they see this person to who that person is, sharing that they are.
Speaker C:So it's really important to me that we're working with people's families and people's friends and communities.
Speaker B:Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker B:That's something that I've, that makes so much sense and is so helpful on the kind of the front end as the person is going through what they're going through, like really having their, their biggest support system, right?
Speaker B:Their, their family and their friends right there with them, kind of walking through each one of those steps.
Speaker B:I'm very curious about this because this is not my area of expertise.
Speaker B:And so I, I talk a lot about the, you know, coming out process for someone who's coming out as gay at which.
Speaker B:And it's very different when somebody's transitioning.
Speaker B:If you had somebody who came to you and was really struggling with telling their friends they were gay as opposed to telling their friends that they were transitioning, how would your advice differ or how would you guide them through that process differently or would you?
Speaker C:Well, you know, I do think coming out as trans is a lot more complex than coming out as gay.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Say I come out as gay to people at work, it's kind of like most people are going to go, oh, okay, you Know, like, oh, you have a wife instead of a husband.
Speaker C:Like it's, it's really not a big deal.
Speaker C:That doesn't really require much of people.
Speaker C:I also think that, and this is, I just want to say that when some of what I'm saying really is my own perspective and there will be people even within the trans community that have different ideas, different opinions, their experience of being trans is going to be different than mine.
Speaker C:So I really can only speak for myself, but I do feel like, you know, working with the amount of trans clients that we hear have at arrive therapy, I get a pretty good overview of kind of like themes and how things are different.
Speaker C:So I think that coming out as trans, part of it is that I think that when a person comes out as gay, they want to be seen for who they are.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Similar to when you come out as trans.
Speaker C:But for, for a lot of times I think for gay people is.
Speaker C:The visibility is really important to them.
Speaker C:The visibility is like, that's how.
Speaker C:Because there is sort of this normative.
Speaker C:People assume you're heterosexual unless they know you are gay.
Speaker C:Right, Right.
Speaker C:So people want to be, I think a little bit more.
Speaker C:It's important to them to be out to be people, to be acknowledging that they know that they are gay or have like a same sex partner.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I think for trans people it's, and I'm thinking very much of binary trans people because I think for non binary folks it is different, it's like a different dynamic.
Speaker C:But for folks who are binary, a lot of times there is sort of like a coming out of the closet, which is important for people around us as we're going through the transition for people to know who we are, for people to adjust, for people to go, okay, I see you for you.
Speaker C:But at a certain point I feel like a lot of especially binary trans folks almost don't want to have to come out anymore.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So if I go into the store and, and nobody realizes that I'm trans or I make a new friend and that person doesn't realize that I'm trans in some ways that is kind of, I think, not necessarily to hide it, but to, to just be seen for who you are.
Speaker C:So when, when I, I meet a contractor at my house and they just treat me like any other guy, that is probably one of the most affirming things I can experience.
Speaker C:It's not that I'm not, it's not that I'm trying to be closeted.
Speaker C:It's just that they really are seeing me for me.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And it's often more just like with people, like if I have a friend, something I'm going to get to know a little bit more then I, in order to be, I think, move past that kind of, you know, just like a relationship you might have with a neighbor or, or someone to move into more intimacy.
Speaker C:I find that it's important like friendships and folks to then come out again.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Sort of saying like, you know, oh, you know, you, you know me as a man and I am, but also I'm, I'm a trans man.
Speaker C:And that's just my personal opinion that I always say to people, you know, I'm not trying to be a CIS man.
Speaker C:Like I, I will never be a CIS man.
Speaker C:That doesn't change that I'm a man and I live as a man and I feel very comfortable this way and that that's who I am.
Speaker C:But I will never be a CIS man and I'm not trying to be.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I think even in some of the stuff you hear from like the media and government and all this stuff, it's almost like you're trying to pretend to be something that you're not.
Speaker C:And I don't really feel that that's fundame true.
Speaker C:So when somebody, when I don't have, when I'm, when I, in a way, sort of like when I pass it, it's, it's very affirming of who I am.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Does that make sense?
Speaker C:So, so it's like coming out is a lot more complex.
Speaker C:So it's also more complex in the sense of, say I come out at work and things have to change.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, you know what happens?
Speaker C:How do I, you know, begin to physically transition at work, like begin to wear the clothes that feel good to me at work.
Speaker C:How do you know, stuff get like name changes and gender stuff.
Speaker C:So, so that it's more complex than just saying, oh yeah, I have a same sex partner because it requires a certain amount of knowledge and change on other people's part.
Speaker B:How can friends be supportive of somebody that is transitioning?
Speaker B:That is because that all makes so much sense.
Speaker B:How can they be protective?
Speaker B:How can they be, how can they be advocating?
Speaker C:I think there's so many different ways and again, I think with being trans and going through a transition, there's, there's different ways at different stages.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So thinking back to when I was first transitioning and I was the supervisor at a mental health facility that had a bunch of different therapists and there were some of those therapists that were really, they Were a little bit older, they were struggling, a little bit more conservative folks who were struggling to.
Speaker C:Although they were respectful, they were really struggling to use my name and pronouns.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:And at some point, one of the therapists came up to me and said, hey, is it okay with you if I go talk with them?
Speaker C:I just want to find out, you know, what is the barrier?
Speaker C:Where are they struggling with this?
Speaker C:And, like, really employ them to kind of, like, implore them.
Speaker C:Sorry.
Speaker C:To get.
Speaker C:To get on board and kind of begin to make the effort to use your name and pronounce.
Speaker C:And that was really, really supportive to me because I was like, I don't have to go fight that fight.
Speaker C:Somebody else is going to go have that conversation in a way that probably even will feel, you know.
Speaker C:You know, those therapists are going to feel less defensive just talking with one of their colleagues and not talking with me or having HR talk with them or something like that.
Speaker C:So I think there's a lot of ways you can, you know, even just, you know, say you're at a family outing and, you know, somebody's uncle misgenders them, not, like, stepping in for that trans person.
Speaker C:I think, especially in the beginning stages, really stepping in and.
Speaker C:And doing some of that, like, hard work.
Speaker C:Because my experience, and really of all the clients that I've had, is that in those first.
Speaker C:That first year, that first two years, you feel really vulnerable.
Speaker C:You feel really vulnerable.
Speaker C:Everything feels really intense.
Speaker C:You're super scared of rejection, you know, and you're.
Speaker C:You're.
Speaker C:You feel like you've just opened up this thing that you've been hiding from.
Speaker C:A lot of people have been hiding for a long time, right?
Speaker C:So to have other people do some of that work for you and just say, you know, just remind somebody of your pronouns or even be somebody who just consistently does it.
Speaker C:Like, I do it a lot here with.
Speaker C:With parents who are struggling with pronouns and names.
Speaker C:And I just continue to use the right pronouns and right names with them.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And what I find in my sessions is that they begin to do it.
Speaker C:And I know initially they're not doing it at home, but they begin to do it here.
Speaker C:And then I find that, like, I just.
Speaker C:So if you're a friend or a neighbor, you just.
Speaker C:Just use the right name and pronoun.
Speaker C:Just just keep at it and also remind the other people.
Speaker C:I also think that, like, for people in your life, friends, family members, getting support, we see a lot of parents here that have maybe adult children who've come out, and the parents have no control over whether the kid's going to transition and they're freaking out and they come in here and they're really doing their own emotional work on what does this mean?
Speaker C:What are their fears for their kids?
Speaker C:What are their own stigma that they carry?
Speaker C:Because we all trans people, we carry a certain amount of transphobia.
Speaker C:Like we've all internalized the stigma.
Speaker C:For example, recently with all these executive orders coming out, just having a few friends who reached out to me and said, hey, I'm thinking of you, you know, like, how are you feeling?
Speaker C:How is this impacting you?
Speaker C:So I think there are different ways at different points in time that you can be supportive.
Speaker C:I'm always amazed by folks who go out and really do active things.
Speaker C:I remember at one point my brother and his wife and kids, they went to Pride and we don't even live in the same area, but my brother went and he was like, you know, I'm going to support you.
Speaker C:And like that really stuck with me.
Speaker C:So I just think there's a lot of ways that you can show your support.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah, yeah, there's a very long answer to that.
Speaker C:Sorry, but no, no.
Speaker B:Well, I think it's, you know, again, it's complex and it deserves a long answer because there are so many different ways.
Speaker B:But there are also things that can be, that can feel trite or can feel not great.
Speaker B:So I think it's important to talk about that as well in the sense that I think there are a lot of well meaning people who are so afraid they're going to make a mistake or are ill informed or doing our own personal work because we all have our biases, we all have our things that are just kind of stuck that we all have to work through.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:I get this question a lot from folks, parents who come in there.
Speaker C:You know, they're like, I'm not sure that I, I handled this right when my kid came out.
Speaker C:And the advice that I always give to people when I'm able to talk with people is to say the best way that you can support somebody when they come out and this is just my opinion is, is to just tell them you love them.
Speaker C:Tell them, thank you for sharing this with me.
Speaker C:I think it's okay to say I don't totally understand, I don't understand this, but I believe you and I'm really like thankful that you shared this with me and not really making it a big deal.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like immediately.
Speaker C:You don't need to go into like questions and tell me this and tell me that there's Going to be lots of space for that.
Speaker C:But I just think initially just sort of saying, I love you, I'm here for you.
Speaker C:And like, thank you for telling me.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And I hear so much from people that when their parent or their sibling just was like, oh, okay, cool.
Speaker C:Like, I'm really glad you told me that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:That's like the best response that I hear from clients over and over again is when somebody does that and they're just like, oh, thank God it wasn't a big deal, you know?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I think too, I think it's important for people to realize like, how much like the internal, like, going over that over and over and over before one actually says it out loud.
Speaker B:Like, they're so much that goes on.
Speaker B:So for someone to come out to you to tell you who they are is such a huge, big deal.
Speaker B:And your response is like, and it doesn't have to be a fancy, long winded, you know, monologue.
Speaker B:I mean, saying exactly what you said, I think is so fantastic.
Speaker B:I love you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:This is incredible.
Speaker B:Whatever, you know, just like that space of this is pretty amazing.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker C:I think one other thing I wanted to say is that I get a lot of people that ask me and say, like, I, I know I messed up.
Speaker C:I know I messed up with my kid.
Speaker C:And I feel like they, I can't repair that.
Speaker C:And I always encourage people to say, like, you can repair that, especially with the parent child relationship.
Speaker C:You know, your kid wants to have a bond with you, they want to be accepted by you.
Speaker C:So if you go back to them and say, like, oh my God, I really messed this up and this is how I really feel and this is what I should have said.
Speaker C:I, I've just seen a lot of healing.
Speaker C:And so I always encourage parents, like, don't feel like you can't go back.
Speaker C:Like, don't make it all about you, but just make it about them.
Speaker C:Like, you know, this is how I really wanted to respond and this is how I feel now.
Speaker C:And I've just seen lots of healing between parents and their kids.
Speaker C:I love that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That is, that is own it.
Speaker B:Own it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker C:Yeah, right.
Speaker C:I mean, just like anything else.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, if I yell at my son, I'm like, I shouldn't have done that.
Speaker C:Like, you know, and I was stressed and that I, you know, I'm sorry.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, we, we have to do that in our relationships for all kinds of things.
Speaker C:And so definitely can do that.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:And I think that is such a freeing Thing.
Speaker B:I mean, I did that right before I got on this, this interview today.
Speaker B:I had go in and apologize to my son who I yelled at a half hour ago.
Speaker C:You're like, man, Yep.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, literally.
Speaker B:But that's like part of being a parent and it's part of being a human and it is so important and it's okay.
Speaker B:I think that is like such an important thing to remind people that it's okay to own it and just keep moving and embrace that you have thoughts on kind of not necessarily the difference, but perhaps occasions when you would not come out or living stealth as to quote you, or living open and when, when do that, when not to do that.
Speaker B:I'd love to hear you talk about that a little bit because I've heard, you know, a lot of people talking about this in different ways, in different terminology.
Speaker B:And I'm curious again, especially given the times that we're in currently, which are, are fearful, it can be scary.
Speaker B:And so I want to know what you think about this.
Speaker C:So a couple overarching things is one, you're right.
Speaker C:Like always, safety first.
Speaker C:So if a client comes to me and they say, like, you know, I'm a trucker, I work in this really masculine industry, it's not going to be safe for me to come out.
Speaker C:Like, as it's my job to sometimes challenge them on that, whether it is possible, but also just to believe them.
Speaker C:So like, safety first, 100%.
Speaker C:But secondly, it's different for everybody, right?
Speaker C:Like, so what I would say is if the amount of outness, in my opinion, in a healthy way, should correspond with the degree of intimacy with that person.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, I'm not going to come out to my neighbor necessarily who I speak with once a month and know nothing about them.
Speaker C:Why would I tell them that I'm trans right now?
Speaker C:In my case, I have some neighbors that found out because I, I did a local news like thing and so now they know and they came by and told me that they saw my interview.
Speaker C:So I was like, okay, well I guess now you know.
Speaker C:But only I would never come out to them because I'm not friends with them.
Speaker C:I really don't have a relationship with them.
Speaker C:Whereas my, especially as a therapist walking with people on this journey a lot, I feel like when people really hide that from friends or even co workers maybe that they're close to or certain family members, I've noticed two things.
Speaker C:One, it keeps you like isolated.
Speaker C:At the end of the day, it does seem to isolate people and it makes it tough to just feel like you're really openly yourself.
Speaker C:And there's something for human beings about honestly and authentically living as who they are that's sort of just like an existential thing.
Speaker C:I don't know that dogs feel that way, but we have this sort of need internally to be seen, right?
Speaker C:We have these, like, mirror neurons we really want to be seen.
Speaker C:That's part of evolutionary, like being part of community, right?
Speaker C:So if.
Speaker C:If you have a friend that you're getting to know and you feel like you're getting closer to them, like, can begin to consider coming out to them.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:But if it's somebody that you're just not ever going to have a close friendship with, then, like, don't come out to them if you don't want to.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Because it.
Speaker C:It almost like doesn't make sense for the level of the relationship.
Speaker C:The other thing I've noticed is that when people really don't come out and there's big areas of their life where they don't come, I've just noticed as a therapist that it seems to sort of stall, stall or stymie their transitions.
Speaker C:It's almost like they can't fully embrace who they are.
Speaker C:There's part of them that is just like, stuck.
Speaker C:And obviously sometimes it's not safe to come out in certain places, so they have to do that.
Speaker C:But it's just something I've noticed that I feel like it keeps people from really, really moving into the fullness of who they are.
Speaker B:That makes so much sense.
Speaker B:The safety thing, obviously is a huge concern right now for a lot of people.
Speaker B:I would love to touch on this a tiny bit, just to get your perspective on everything that's come through, why you think it was a first line item order of business, what and what can be done?
Speaker B:What can people do to protect?
Speaker B:What can people do to advocate?
Speaker B:And I know that you have a really good source that you're going to share too.
Speaker C:All right, so let's start with the source.
Speaker C:I really am always reading the Independent journalism by Erin Reed.
Speaker C:She does Aaron in the Morning and she reports independently and specifically focuses on all the different laws that are happening across the country.
Speaker C:The positive things that happens, the lawsuits, the executive orders.
Speaker C:And she also breaks them down.
Speaker C:I mean, frankly, I feel like she's pretty genius.
Speaker C:She goes to them and really breaks it down and makes it really applicable so you understand what's in them and what.
Speaker C:What it probably means, what it could mean.
Speaker C:And a lot of times, especially with executive orders, they're directives to Agencies, they're not actually laws.
Speaker C:So it's right, it's sometimes like, are they going to be enforced?
Speaker C:How will it be enforced?
Speaker C:Who's going to enforce it?
Speaker C:So there's, there's a lot there, but she really breaks it all down.
Speaker C:So Erin in the morning, that's where hands down, I go down go for.
Speaker B:Most of my information also.
Speaker C:Okay, yep.
Speaker C:YouTube, tick tock.
Speaker C:You know, she does videos and she does written format.
Speaker C:I really like the written format because it really goes into detail and goes.
Speaker C:It will sort of have like, here's a piece of the executive order and here's what that means and then we'll go kind of line by line.
Speaker C:That mean that especially in my role, you know that we have about 450 active clients and they're all coming to us right now asking us what do we do?
Speaker C:What does this mean?
Speaker C:And some of what we, we don't know because it's all in flux.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So it's, it's to me to kind of be really looking at those things.
Speaker C:So going back to what was the rest of your question?
Speaker C:I know about safety, right?
Speaker C:About safety.
Speaker B:I think for me it was just kind of talking about my feelings and my perspective on it too.
Speaker B:Obviously it was something that they ran on.
Speaker B:I know that they'd like to pick something to make people scared of.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So unfortunately, trans people got to be the.
Speaker B:We're going to be afraid of trans people.
Speaker B:I don't, I don't understand that.
Speaker B:So that's part of my question, is why that either?
Speaker C:Well, I mean, I have thoughts on it.
Speaker B:Okay, share your thoughts.
Speaker B:I want to know.
Speaker C: is I came out as a lesbian in: Speaker C:They're not a very good place to be a young 18 year old queer person.
Speaker C:And so, you know, I've had the opportunity to sort of see the shifts and changes for the gay community as well as now for the, for the trans community.
Speaker C: ice because, you know, in the: Speaker C:But, but that came on the heels of more visibility, right?
Speaker C:So it became more visible, people were fighting for rights, people were coming out all over the place and there was like a big backlash.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:So in one way this kind of like tracks a little bit, right.
Speaker C:The last like 10 years, there's been more and more visibility, more and more being more vocal.
Speaker C:And so there was like a Backlash against that.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So I see this a little bit as a pattern.
Speaker C: eviously, sort of like in the: Speaker C:But I think that has way more to do about polarization in our country and the type of politics that we have right now.
Speaker C:So, you know, it is mind boggling in a sense, because I'm like, we're, we're 1% of the population.
Speaker C:Like, I mean, it's just, why put all this energy and time into 1% of the population?
Speaker C:But I do think it does a couple things.
Speaker C:Like it makes them look macho, kind of, you know, bad.
Speaker C:It makes them look like they're doing something.
Speaker C:And there's, you know, when I, when I, you know, I do read sort of like I'm in some, some groups online that are really like right wing groups.
Speaker C:And part of it is I kind of want to hear what they're saying.
Speaker C:And they love it.
Speaker C:I mean, this is everything that's happened politically.
Speaker C:They love it.
Speaker C:They're eating it up.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so there's a, as a, as a therapist, there's a site in certain, like psychology, right.
Speaker C:So there, it's also, you know, trans people, we have relatively zero power, right?
Speaker C:So it's like, why go after a group has zero power, but also makes it very easy to go after.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, we're a very, very easy target.
Speaker C:I think it makes sense when you look at like the kind of energy that our current politics on the right wing are feeding into and this sort of like, target a vulnerable group that is, in a way, I think, you know, people don't know a lot about trans people, partly because there's so few of us.
Speaker C:Also because so many of us do pass, right.
Speaker C:Like once we get so far along in our transition, people say like, I don't know any trans people.
Speaker C:And I'm like, you're talking to one, you know.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:And so, so what helped the gay community, and I saw this very much so was visibility.
Speaker C: he more as I went through the: Speaker C:Those are fine people.
Speaker C:It's my co worker, it's fine.
Speaker C:But like, I, in a way, when we are closeted as trans people, it makes it more difficult for people.
Speaker C:And I don't mean closeted in a bad way because I'M not necessarily closeted when my neighbors don't know that I'm trans.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:I'm just living my life being myself.
Speaker C:Right, Right.
Speaker C:But whereas if I was a gay person and I had a male partner, then people would automatically know, oh, that's a gay couple.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So the more there's, like, visibility and people understand who trans or gay people are, the more it kind of like, demystifies it.
Speaker C:And it's like, oh, you're just people.
Speaker C:You know, like, we're just people.
Speaker C:We.
Speaker C:We get our.
Speaker C:We put our trash out like you, and we, like, have to shovel our sidewalk.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:It's like, we're not doing anything different than you are.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:So I think that's, you know, sometimes being able to not be visible and just living your life as a trans person makes it harder for us as a community to be seen as just like everybody else around you.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But to me, I see it as two things.
Speaker C:We're sort of like political capital.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Like, we're just like an easy target.
Speaker C:And secondly, people are uneducated and they're afraid.
Speaker C:So people are afraid.
Speaker C:They don't.
Speaker C:They.
Speaker C:They're believing a lot of propaganda.
Speaker C:They're believing a lot of transphobia.
Speaker C:They don't even know they have.
Speaker C:They just don't know.
Speaker C:And they're.
Speaker C:You know, I also feel like people are just struggling in general in their life.
Speaker C:They're struggling with their mental health across the board.
Speaker C:They're struggling with, you know, economics and inflation.
Speaker C:And so they're not kind of going like, let me see, with what really are trans people.
Speaker C:It's just like, people are just overwhelmed in their lives, and so they just kind of like, you know, so how.
Speaker B:Do we begin to shift that narrative?
Speaker B:Because I think that's like, kind of the next step.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:That narrative needs to be shift.
Speaker B:Shifted.
Speaker B:People need to be educated.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:It is all based on fear.
Speaker B:That's been my feeling is, so how do we do this?
Speaker B:Like, how do we talk to.
Speaker B:You know, I'm thinking of people in my head.
Speaker B:I'm sure we can all think of people in our head as we're listening to this right now, right.
Speaker B:That we would say, okay, listen, like, what.
Speaker B:What are you afraid of?
Speaker B:Like, is that kind of how you start out?
Speaker B:Like, what can I.
Speaker B:What questions can I answer for you?
Speaker B:What.
Speaker B:What are you curious about?
Speaker B:How would you start that kind of conversation with somebody?
Speaker B:Or how would you suggest that, you know, somebody like me that is just, you Know, like a kind of neutral person goes out into the world and says, okay, let's, let's do something about this.
Speaker B:Like, this is nuts.
Speaker B:Why are we doing this?
Speaker B:Let's talk.
Speaker C:I mean, I do really think that allies and people who are not trans are often in some ways the best people to talk to.
Speaker C:Your neighbors and your friends and your family members.
Speaker C:So, you know, my, my suggestion would be like, it just.
Speaker C:It's going to come up.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's going to come up.
Speaker C:These executive orders are going to come up.
Speaker C:Oh, you know, oh, that person at work is transitioning.
Speaker C:And you can begin a conversation about that.
Speaker C:Like, oh, how do you feel about that?
Speaker C:Or what's going on?
Speaker C:Or like, what are your thoughts on?
Speaker C:So I think you can start those conversations with people.
Speaker C:You don't have to really start them out of the blue.
Speaker C:They'll sort of come up because it's kind of in the, it's in like the current conversation.
Speaker C:I also, you know, I think that when you were asking before about how did people get involved and how do people make change and sort of help the community, what I always say to people is just, you know, you can't do it alone, right?
Speaker C:You can do it alone, like talking to your family member or something like that, or supporting a friend that you have.
Speaker C:That's trans.
Speaker C:Like, those are really things that you can do alone.
Speaker C:But the bigger thing is like joining organizations, like local organizations, P Flags and pride organizations.
Speaker C:And you know, there's lots of different places that are doing things, giving money.
Speaker C:I mean, that's one of the things that, that, that is fueling some of this hate is a lot of money that's gone into it, right?
Speaker C:So I would say, like, if you don't have time, energy to go stand on the street corner with a sign or show up at a pride and volunteer whatever it is, like, give some money.
Speaker C:It doesn't matter how much it is.
Speaker C:Just like, do something that, you know, that's helpful.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it does.
Speaker B:I mean, it doesn't matter if it's a little bit.
Speaker B:That's how things are going to shift.
Speaker C:I have one more thought.
Speaker C:One of the things I really encourage people to do is, is think your skills, right?
Speaker C:If you are a graphic designer, go to a non profit in your area that's supporting LGBTQ people and say, I'm a graphic designer.
Speaker C:Do you need graphic design?
Speaker C:If you're an attorney, you know, like, go to one of the nonprofits and ask them if they need any kind of legal advice.
Speaker C:Like, can you join their board just to give legal advice if whatever it is that you have a skill.
Speaker C:And so that's what I was going to say about myself.
Speaker C:Like, I'm not somebody who's going to go out and, you know, be part of some march or parade maybe or protest.
Speaker C:But in my.
Speaker C:I'm doing what I'm doing.
Speaker C:I'm a therapist.
Speaker C:And so I am giving all of my energy to supporting my community through what my skills are.
Speaker C:And I think that's how people tap into.
Speaker C:Because people go like, oh, well, I, I'm not going to be good at that.
Speaker C:And it's like, think about what you are good at and somebody needs that skill and plug that in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Oh, that's perfect.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Thank you for saying that.
Speaker B:Because that is, there's, there's a place for everyone, for everyone to be helpful and, and I think too, it' very easy right now to get either kind of frozen and like the onslaught, right?
Speaker B:There's just so much that you just kind of shut down.
Speaker B:And I mean, I know I have friends who are like, I've just powered off, like, I just cannot take it.
Speaker B:And I think there's definitely a practice to being able to kind of dose your information, right?
Speaker B:And I know, like, and have your good sources like Aaron Reed and have like your, you know, your three good things that you listen to a day that you really get that solid information, you do the work that you can in the world and you know, you keep moving forward.
Speaker B:So this is so solid, so helpful.
Speaker B:I want to just kind of end on talking about trans people specifically, really accepting and loving who they are, regardless of all of this ugliness that's going on in the world and your thoughts, your advice on how to do that.
Speaker B:And so for anyone trans who is listening and also people who love their trans child or their trans friend, how can they help them hold space and support them as they're either questioning or just feeling lousy in this time?
Speaker C:I mean, okay, so there's more than one, one part to that question.
Speaker C:But I think that what I always encourage people to do is just believe and accept the person in front of you so you don't have to understand.
Speaker C:And I get parents that say, I don't think I'm ever going to understand what's going on my kidnapp.
Speaker C:And I think you don't have to understand.
Speaker C:It's okay.
Speaker C:All you have to do is love them, support them.
Speaker C:I don't, I don't understand my son's love of anime.
Speaker C:I mean, I Just I don't have to, I just can like, you know, accept what he likes, not force him to like something else.
Speaker C:And so it's similar with the gender identity.
Speaker C:It's like be there with them, say I'm on this journey with you.
Speaker C:And so even if you're a friend, just saying, I'm on this journey with you, like, I want to learn, I'm going to learn as I watch you and I'm going to do some learning.
Speaker C:So I think that it really helps to educate yourself in education is so easy now in a way, right?
Speaker C:Like there's so many videos, there's so many people sharing their stories, autobiographies.
Speaker C:There's really is a lot of information.
Speaker C:There's podcast like this, so many ways you can inform yourself.
Speaker C:And so it's not for a lack of available information.
Speaker C:It's people taking the time to just go like, okay, I'm gonna go actually try to put myself into what is going on with my friend or my family member.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And then at the end of the day, you know, love is really accepting that person in front of you.
Speaker C:Like, I, I, I love you and I'm here with you for your journey.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:So I think that's one of the best things you can do is just educate yourself and just go along for the ride with them.
Speaker B:I love that.
Speaker B:And then just, I think the other piece of that was how to really anchor in with all the political stuff coming at us.
Speaker B:How do you anchor in that sense of self worth and holding on to who you are?
Speaker C:Yeah, this is definitely something I'm working with people on in therapy and I've had to even go through this a little bit myself in the last couple of weeks as some of this has been happening and really looked at.
Speaker C:Is it helpful?
Speaker C:Is it, is it wise to be looking outside of myself?
Speaker C:Even like a government document or something that the government says to validate who I am.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:And so my kind of looking at myself and going, okay, maybe they're going to reverse my passport at some point.
Speaker C:If I try to renew it, maybe it will say female and on again.
Speaker C:But.
Speaker C:And so that felt really hurtful and it felt kind of dehumanizing.
Speaker C:And then I really had to reflect on, but do I need them to tell me who I am?
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like I'm telling them who they I am and if they're not accepting that, that's on them.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:I just, I am who I am.
Speaker C:And so the more I can just like get really clear with myself, that's What I encourage people to do, just get really clear with themselves on who they are and really take a look inside about why is it that I need somebody else to affirm me?
Speaker C:Why is it, is it that I need somebody else to say?
Speaker C:Because let's say to people is like, that's a treadmill, right?
Speaker C:Like, it's like, oh, you know, my friend's gonna say, oh, I accept you.
Speaker C:And then I feel better about myself, but then I'm gonna have to go somewhere else.
Speaker C:It's just gonna keep coming back until I really, a hundred percent just accept me.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And that is work that sometimes does really take time in therapy, but that's something I work with people on.
Speaker C:Like, even with their bodies, you transitioning, there's going to be limits to where you can take your body and even cisgender people deal with that, right?
Speaker C:Like, if I want to do plastic surgery on myself because I don't like certain features of mine, there's a limit to what I can do with that.
Speaker C:And then there is sort of like, okay, this is the body I have.
Speaker C:This is the.
Speaker C:This is who I am.
Speaker C:And I can walk around every day and I can be miserable.
Speaker C:I can hate myself.
Speaker C:And if I hate myself, it doesn't really matter if people outside of me love me and accept me.
Speaker C:Me, right?
Speaker C:Because I will keep coming back to.
Speaker C:I don't totally believe myself.
Speaker C:I don't.
Speaker C:I don't really totally love myself.
Speaker C:And it does.
Speaker C:It takes time to get there.
Speaker C:But that's something that I work on a lot with clients.
Speaker C:And one thing going back to what you're saying about how did people with everything that's going on.
Speaker C:So I do think it's really important to not flood yourself, right?
Speaker C:Like, there's so much happening.
Speaker C:I think more than ever, it's important not to have your head in the sand and actually be paying attention, but taking breaks from it and not looking at it all day long and because it can almost become like, self interest, right?
Speaker C:Like, especially if you're being attacked and you're constantly reading it and you know it's hurting your mental health.
Speaker C:It's like you're at a certain point, you're letting them hurt you, right?
Speaker C:Because you're letting it in.
Speaker C:You have to say no.
Speaker C:Right now, in my personal life, I'm safe, right?
Speaker C:And I do this with clients sometimes who get really flooded and I sort of say, okay, yes, all that is true.
Speaker C:And we don't know what's going to happen.
Speaker C:We do not know what the government's going to do.
Speaker C:We do not know what's going to happen at work when you come out.
Speaker C:But right now are you safe sitting here in my office, like, and just getting people to like, get really clear with like right now?
Speaker C:And that when you feel safe inside, it's actually so much easier to face potential dangers externally.
Speaker C:And trans people really do have to face that on a regular basis.
Speaker C:So the more that we can feel safe inside, it gives us the strength to kind of face the world and not get totally unmoored by it.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker C:Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker C:And that's a lot of my own personal work.
Speaker C:Right.
Speaker C:Like, I, I, this is stuff that I, I've had to do in my own self and you know, then I can kind of share with clients and guide them.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:Well, and I think that too is such a great, that's such a great lesson for everyone.
Speaker C:It's so true.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, and it's so humanizing and I think that is just so important.
Speaker B:So thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker C:Yeah, you're welcome.
Speaker B:Tell me really quick, tell everyone really quick how they can find you.
Speaker B:I will have all of your contact information in the show notes, but I would love for you to say it as well right now.
Speaker C:Okay.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'd love to.
Speaker C:The one thing I want to go back and say is this, this sort of advice that I was talking about is I find that it, it is just as important to hear that because parents of trans kids get really dysregulated, really afraid, really concerned and they have a hard time not, not getting flooded by everything that's happening too.
Speaker C:So kind of the same thing for parents and family members.
Speaker C:So arrive therapy.
Speaker C:We are@arightherapy.com we have social media, TikTok, Instagram.
Speaker C:We do have a YouTube.
Speaker C:We don't have many people follow us on YouTube, but all the same in person, I do videos regularly on, on how to parent, how to support your trans kid, myths about gender affirming care, just stuff, just stuff like that.
Speaker C:We do see folks in a variety of states who are licensed in a variety of states.
Speaker C:And so definitely if you're looking for a therapist, I think there's something really beautiful about having a trans therapist in particular for trans teens.
Speaker C:Trans teens don't really have real life models.
Speaker C:They don't have people in their life.
Speaker C:Usually they can look at and they can say, oh, that's what it's like to be a trans adult.
Speaker C:And so kids feel, feel really like loss, like what does it mean to grow up and be a trans person.
Speaker C:And so being able to sit with a trans therapist, you can kind of go, yeah, like, I really get that, you know, and I understand your experience, but also, like, I can get you to the other side.
Speaker C:Like, I've gotten to the other side.
Speaker C:You can do anything you want to do with your life.
Speaker C:And I can say that because I'm doing it right?
Speaker C:And so, you know, it.
Speaker C:It.
Speaker C:When I say to them, oh, you know, it's important to accept who you are, they're not looking at me going like, you don't know what I'm talking about, right?
Speaker C:It's like, so.
Speaker C:So we can kind of feel like, take the therapy to deeper places because we have that shared experience.
Speaker C:Right?
Speaker C:So, anyway, long winded way of saying arrivetherapy.com we have 11 therapists, everybody's LGBTQ.
Speaker C:Many of us are trans and non binary, and we'd love to support anyone who needs.
Speaker C:Just look over there.
Speaker B:Happy.
Speaker B:Love it.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Thank you, Alexander.
Speaker B:Such a pleasure to have you on today.
Speaker C:Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker B:I really, really appreciate it.
Speaker C:You're very welcome.
